Talk:Frank Zappa
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Frank Zappa article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12Auto-archiving period: 12 months |
Frank Zappa is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 4, 2008. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This level-5 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Musician, composer, songwriter, bandleader
[edit]Someone had turned "singer-songwriter, musician" into "musician, composer, songwriter, bandleader", which was accepted by myself and by user Justiyaya. This is was reverted ([1]) by user Wretchskull (talk · contribs) per wp:UNDUE. I don't think there's anything undue about the phrase musician, composer, songwriter, bandleader. On the contrary, these attributes are overwhelmingly supported by the article. So I undid the undo ([2]). Other comments welcome. - DVdm (talk) 16:52, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the ping DVdm, please note (for anyone joining the discussion) that there is a huge section up above saying why bandleader belongs in the lead (thank you Herostratus). Justiyaya 17:14, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
- Mnmn, the noted singer-songwriter Frank Zappa... I honestly feel that if we try to put him in in with like Lobo (musician) and Neil Diamond and Christopher Cross etc. we'd risk calling forth a nameless shapeless wrath that might consume the universe. I can't think of a more misleading way to characterize Zappa... Heh I'm imagining him onstage alone on a stool in a spotlight and strumming away at "Time In A Bottle"... oof. Yes sure this is an accurate image to put in the reader's mind... I suppose "Frank Zappa was a musician, composer, guitarist, and potato ricer (a kitchen implement used to process potatoes by forcing them through a sheet of small holes)" would be a little more misleading. Sorry, this just gave me the giggles.
- My thought remains that "musician, composer, songwriter, bandleader" works fine, not broke, don't fix. (But if we've got the hood open anyway, I'd prefer "guitarist, composer, songwriter, bandleader" because he really was a virtuoso guitarist I think. However, it's fine either way, don't worry about it. (My thought process being: whatever "musician" might mean, we've already spun off songwriter, bandleader, and composer, so what's left is his instruments and singing I guess?. But didn't he have other people do a fair amount of the singing? Even when not he just wasn't noted for his singing but he was for his playing. But whatever.) Herostratus (talk) 02:15, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
- I agree with "musician, composer, songwriter, bandleader" Dr.bobbs (talk) 14:54, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- "Composer, guitarist, bandleader" would be more accurate. For starters, Zappa considered himself a composer first and foremost (says so in his autobiography). He composed large symphonic works. And rock music. And jazz. And a few other things. But composition was central: everything else was to support his composition habit.
- Once you have "composer", songwriter is implicit in that. True, not all composers are songwriters, necessarily, but all songwriters are composers.
- "Musician" is both over-general, and redundant. Could one possible be a composer, a guitarist, and a bandleader, (and a songwriter), and NOT be a "musician"?
- 74.95.43.253 (talk) 01:29, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, afaic, we can leave the musician aside. I'll make the change and we can keep it. After possible further discussion here, we can revert. - DVdm (talk) 14:19, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
- He was a composer first and foremost! 2A00:23C6:CC8B:9601:6176:3FA9:76CE:1C0C (talk) 06:15, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
phrasing, "uses conventions" versus "conventional"
[edit]@24.143.103.204, I asked you to please discuss your thoughts here before continuing to make changes. You're misunderstanding my point: Zappa did use existing conventions in unconventional ways. An artist can be unconventional in the way they use conventions. He wrote down his thoughts with (mostly) conventional music notation, for example.
I am worried that your particular phraseology is overly narrow, and may impact the meaning of the article in a way that's neither neutral nor represented by sources. Remsense留 07:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
Subpage time?
[edit]Ban evasion by User:Sugar Bear, using Washington state IPs. |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This article is getting very long, especially for a featured article. It was just a hair under 11k words upon FAR in 2017, and is now over my personal pigheaded bright line of 12k where I put my foot down and say "I don't care what the article is about, it's obviously too long". It seems to me that a lot of the detail regarding his work is notable enough to be viable as subpages—cf. Beethoven's musical style, Beethoven's compositional method. Thoughts? Remsense诉 20:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC) YES! Finally! This article is way too long. It still has parts that are poorly written, inaccurate, repetitive and or overly verbose. It can be tightened up. There is still a lot of trivial and or unsourced information that should be removed. Trivial info can be moved to other articles or deleted entirely.24.143.118.36 (talk) 19:53, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Could you explain what you mean by "split out"? Do you mean making new articles? One thing that definitely needs to go is just about any quote about Zappa's music from Robert Christgau. He clearly is highly biased and has little or no understanding of FZ's music. He is one of those people who is responsible for spreading a lot of false impressions. He described Bongo Fury as "sentimental", which may the dumbest thing I have ever heard anyone say about FZ's music. The amount of sentimental FZ music is at or near zero. Kelly Fisher Lowe isn't exactly a widely recognized music expert as Christgau is (ha ha), but he is a musician who understands FZ's music. I would like to find other writers to quote who are similar to Kelly but more widely recognized.24.143.118.36 (talk) 20:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
|
"Greek and Arab descent"
[edit]Ban evasion by User:Sugar Bear, using Washington state IPs. |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I want to thank 93.66.85.208 for once again removing the reference to "Greek and Arab descent". FZ's father was born in Sicily to a family of Sicilian descent. It is really very misleading to say that FZ was of "Greek and Arab descent". Nearly all Sicilians actually have some level of "Greek and Arab descent", especially going back 2,000 years or more. They also have a lot of other influences that were never mentioned in the article. See the article on Sicilians. They have had their own language and culture for a very long time. When FZ said he had "Greek and Arab descent" he was merely describing most Sicilians in general, not himself or his family in particular. The people of Rome today are radically different, ethnically, linguistically and culturally that the ancient Romans. Same difference. Please stop re-adding "Greek and Arab descent" back into the article.24.143.109.40 (talk) 20:35, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
|
Just peachy-keen
[edit]"Zappa died from prostate cancer on December 4, 1993, at his home with his wife and children by his side." Just one big happy, eh? Maybe you should add a little info from Moon Zappa's new memoir. 2600:1012:A023:8AD6:2163:1DA:7D4C:C88F (talk) 02:17, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
Financial Status at Death
[edit]I saw an interview with Moon that her father died deeply in debt. I did not see a mention of that in the article. Should a note on that be added to the article?
Seki1949 (talk) 08:38, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
Bike playing career
[edit]I have located an old blog post about his appearance on the Steve Allen show. https://www.afka.net/Articles/2002-00_Jerry_Hopkins.htm I think it might deserve a spot on here. Twineeea (talk) 03:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- A better source would be needed, as blogs aren't generally WP:reliable sources, and material not mentioned in reliable sources shouldn't be in the article. Remsense ‥ 论 04:43, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Infobox photo needs to be changed
[edit]This photo is color and objectively better than the infobox photo currently used. It is higher quality, and it was restored by me this morning. Wcamp9 (talk) 21:56, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
- I have no problem with the current image. - FlightTime (open channel) 22:21, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
- You just put that on literally every single post I made, probably without looking at a single one of the images. First of all, why isn't color better. The last image is lower quality, this is objctively better Wcamp9 (talk) 00:24, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Wcamp9: I disagree with all your infobox image proposals, regardless of how I phrase it. - FlightTime (open channel) 14:07, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree with your opinions too, but they are yours so I do not care anymore Wcamp9 (talk) 14:08, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Wcamp9: I disagree with all your infobox image proposals, regardless of how I phrase it. - FlightTime (open channel) 14:07, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
- You just put that on literally every single post I made, probably without looking at a single one of the images. First of all, why isn't color better. The last image is lower quality, this is objctively better Wcamp9 (talk) 00:24, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
- Why does it "need" to be changed? That is a very strong statement; is there something horribly, horribly wrong with it? I find the current one is better than the one you proposed. Mathglot (talk) 05:42, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well, I guess it doesn't "need" to be changed, but it is a higher quality image, with more facial details being shown in a color image Wcamp9 (talk) 15:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- I think the one already there is better. Twineeea (talk) 17:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Well, I guess it doesn't "need" to be changed, but it is a higher quality image, with more facial details being shown in a color image Wcamp9 (talk) 15:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
Zappa's religious beliefs
[edit]The article states that Zappa was an atheist, but in this interview from 1983 he rejects being called an atheist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QLRATxplwU I would say Zappa's religious views were more agnostic than outright atheist. Tbf62 (talk) 14:40, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
Steve Allen Show-Bike music
[edit]He said it would be used as soundtrack in film starring Tim Curry, name?? 166.181.88.125 (talk) 07:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- This would not be mentioned in an encyclopedia biography with an iota of self restraint. Remsense ‥ 论 07:03, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia featured articles
- Featured articles that have appeared on the main page
- Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
- Old requests for peer review
- FA-Class level-5 vital articles
- Wikipedia level-5 vital articles in People
- FA-Class vital articles in People
- FA-Class biography articles
- FA-Class biography (musicians) articles
- High-importance biography (musicians) articles
- Musicians work group articles
- WikiProject Biography articles
- FA-Class United States articles
- Low-importance United States articles
- FA-Class United States articles of Low-importance
- FA-Class American music articles
- High-importance American music articles
- WikiProject American music articles
- United States articles used on portals
- WikiProject United States articles
- FA-Class Composers articles
- WikiProject Composers articles
- FA-Class guitarist articles
- WikiProject Guitarists articles
- FA-Class Jazz articles
- Low-importance Jazz articles
- WikiProject Jazz articles
- FA-Class Progressive rock articles
- High-importance Progressive rock articles
- FA-Class Record Production articles
- Mid-importance Record Production articles
- FA-Class Rock music articles
- Top-importance Rock music articles
- WikiProject Rock music articles
- FA-Class Maryland articles
- Low-importance Maryland articles
- FA-Class Baltimore articles
- Low-importance Baltimore articles
- Baltimore task force articles
- WikiProject Maryland articles