Talk:African wild dog

African Wild Dog Conservancy was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 21 February 2023 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into African wild dog. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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African wild dog has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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A fact from African wild dog appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 17 August 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that one reason for the African Wild Dog name controversy is that endangered African Wild Dogs are being confused with feral domestic dogs?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/August.

Wikipedia

Interspecies breeding

I would like to add a statement saying that African wild dogs cannot crossbreed with domestic dogs or wolves. I made this edit but (bringing in @Mariomassone) someone reverted it saying "already implied in taxonomy". Wikipedia is not just for scientists and since the species is called African wild dog it isn't clear to the average reader whether or not it can crossbreed -- hence, adding such a statement would be helpful. Anyone else have any comments on this? If there are no more opinions, I'll look for Wikipedia:Third opinion BrightOrion (talk) 09:32, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you can say lack of interbreeding is implied in the taxonomy. Intergeneric crosses can occur within carnivores, including several cat ones that are being used as pets (e.g. Bengal cat and Savannah cat).

I'll also bring up a problem at Jackal–dog hybrid where it says dogs can't interbreed with the non-Canis jackals without a source. Perhaps the source for the African wild dog also covers the Lupulella jackals. — Jts1882 | talk 10:35, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good point! BrightOrion (talk) 10:41, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you or the comments. I used this as the source https://davidshepherd.org/painted-dogs/painted-dog-facts/ for saying AWD cannot breed with domestic dogs. Is this source acceptable do you think? BrightOrion (talk) 10:41, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think this source is NOT acceptable. You need to provide a WP:RS, not a website. – BhagyaMani (talk) 10:44, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I was going to say it's not the best source, i.e. not a scientific journal and not giving its source. However, it is the website of a recognised wildlife charity started by a known artist and conservationist, David Shepherd. It's borderline, but I'd say it's just about acceptable. — Jts1882 | talk 10:55, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some more links (slightly more scientific) saying that AWD and domestic dog cannot interbreed.

https://www.nathab.com/blog/ten-facts-about-the-african-wild-dog/ WWF article

https://www.africanwilddogwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/awdw0001.pdf Africanwilddogwatch.org article

I'm not a vet, but have some knowledge of biology and evidence-based practice. I would have thought that using both of those last two references to support the point is reasonable until/unless a vet or ecologist can provide a textbook source for the statement (e.g. ^[1]. Sadly, I don't have £162 spare to access the PDF! Kitb (talk)

Update: I have just emailed Prof Creel, the author of the textbook, to see if it confirms this fact—watch this space! 🤞 Kitb (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:04, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This RfC is a mess. How is anybody expected to comment upon a statement like this? Where is the indication that WP:RFCBEFORE was exhausted? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:49, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Redrose64, I'm sorry the RfC format is a mess. TBH I found it quite confusing as to how to list it. Nevertheless, it has succeeded in getting some very useful comments and I hope this article will be improved as a result. I did ping the person who reverted my edit (Mariomassone) but there has been no response. BrightOrion (talk) 05:11, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I think that I've worked it out. The {{rfc}} tag had been placed after the statement when it should have been before; and BrightOrion was in breach of WP:INTERLEAVE by splitting up Jts1882's post. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:00, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And it's looking better already. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:02, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion has died down a bit so I propose adding text that says African wild dogs cannot crossbreed with domestic dogs or wolves, and using the above two references (WWF article and Africanwilddogwatch.org article) as sources. I will proceed with this unless there are any disagreements? BrightOrion (talk) 18:46, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You ought to be more patient. And I do not agree to use websites as sources. Find a better ref, e.g. a journal article. – BhagyaMani (talk) 19:36, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to be a singleton here BhagyaMani. I agree with using those sources as references, and so does Kitb ("I would have thought that using both of those last two references to support the point is reasonable") and Jts1882 ("[David Shepherd] It's borderline, but I'd say it's just about acceptable". So the vote count stands at 3-1 against you at the moment. BrightOrion (talk) 21:31, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

More like 3-2. Mariomassone (talk) 23:25, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Canid hybrid article says "however, it is believed that Cuon, Lupulella and Lycaon cannot breed with each other or with Canis.[7][8]"

[7] "Painted Wolves: The Colorful Carnivores of the African Wild". Live Science. 28 February 2019.

[8] Sillero-Zubiri, Claudio; Hoffmann, Michael J.; Dave Mech (2004). Canids: Foxes, Wolves, Jackals and Dogs: Status Survey and Conservation Action Plan. World Conservation Union. ISBN 978-2-8317-0786-0.[page needed]

What's wrong with using that as a reference? BrightOrion (talk) 04:53, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I have searched Ref. [8] above, but can't find any mention of AWD and domestic dog hybridisation. Therefore, I think Ref. [7] alone would be best. BrightOrion (talk) 06:20, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A more authoratative source: The unique adaptations observed in African wild dogs were likely facilitated by their unique demographic history. Most large canid lineages have experienced gene flow from divergent species, whereas our inferred demographic model suggests that African wild dogs were genetically isolated from other species. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44772-5 Mariomassone (talk) 08:21, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So does anyone object to me using the above reference that Mariomassone found? BrightOrion (talk) 11:24, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit done. BrightOrion (talk) 04:06, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

BhagyaMani can I remind you of Wikipedia's policy of "Don't be a jerk". And by that I mean deliberately reverting my edits repeatedly. BrightOrion (talk) 09:21, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"were genetically isolated" doesn't mean "cannot interbreed"; it means "didn't interbreed" without saying why. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 22:11, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

... On the other hand: if it's already obvious based on the taxonomy, then arguments based on weaknesses of the sources are rather pointless. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 17:14, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The two sources currently in the article both flatly state that the African wild dog can hybridize with other canids and produce fertile offspring. I corrected the text to match those sources. 72.66.107.22 (talk) 22:36, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do not include in lead - just not significant amount on this in the article or external sources so included in the lead is contrary to WP:LEAD and is WP:UNDUE. Mostly mentions about breeding of animals will be about how they do breed, such as season and frequency and size of litter, plus here the specifics of a dominant breeding pair. Even where there is common cross breeding such as Mules then it might have a minor note in the body of the article Horse, but not a lead prominence. Uncommon hybrids such as Liger, Zonkey, or Geep would not get more than that, and mention of nonexistent crossbreed would be below that unless there were highly prominent efforts to make it happen. Cheers Markbassett (talk) 13:03, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Creel, Scott; Creel, Nancy Marusha. "The African Wild Dog". Retrieved 10 April 2022.

African Wild Dog Predation on Cape Buffalo

The Pack is incredibly large, but there are documented cases of African Wild Dogs predating upon Adult Cape Buffalo, as the Clip provided below shows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm6hhtT3tZ4 WL Enthusiast (talk) 16:21, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Neat. Find a WP:RS you can site... - UtherSRG (talk) 16:48, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ironically, there seems to be no specific studies or reports on their capacity that confirm it, despite seemingly semi frequent videos and the like online. Rather Unfortunate, and I'll try harder to find some. For now however, I dont think there's any reliable sources aside from visual documentation. WL Enthusiast (talk) 14:55, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright I've looked for a while, however I have found nothing. There's nothing in scientific literature or even just articles discussing the predation. It's rather undeniable that they do hunt Cape Buffalo however, with the surprisingly large swathes of videos taped by several different people confirming that they do. what do we do then? Do we just not include it because there's nothing in scientific literature about it? or what? WL Enthusiast (talk) 18:16, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Attacks

The African wild dog was involved in an attack at the Pittsburgh Zoo. So can this be on this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:4700:2D30:7890:4CD2:D4C7:D38E (talk) 18:33, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I do not consider this relevant, see WP:NOTNEWS. BhagyaMani (talk) 10:22, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edits by sockpuppet account

This article has been extensively edited by a sockpuppet account (User:Dancing Dollar): have any of their edits been problematic? Jarble (talk) 18:45, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dancing Dollar also GANed the pages on Leopard and Snow Leopard, both of which were well prepared. I didn't notice any problematic edits there. @SilverTiger12: did you? BhagyaMani (talk) 19:54, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't notice any problems with their edits other than a multitude of quick, small copy-edits flooding the article history. For the most part the end result was good though. Happy editing, SilverTiger12 (talk) 19:56, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Adjule" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Adjule has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 11 § Adjule until a consensus is reached. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:56, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Creel, Scott; Creel, Nancy Marusha. "The African Wild Dog". Retrieved 10 April 2022.

[1]