FULL-LENGTH TALK TRANSCRIPTS

Enjoy these 3 expert talk transcripts

from The Fasting Transformation Summit!
 IN THIS ISSUE

FEATURED PRESENTATIONS
Enjoy learning from these If you’re already a (If you’re not yet registered,
introductory expert talk registrant of The Fasting be sure to sign up to access
transcripts pulled from The Transformation Summit, these interviews!)
Fasting Transformation you can access the video
interviews of these talks
Summit! below:

GUEST EXPERTS
Fasting, Ketosis and Cancer
from Nasha Winters, ND, FABNO, LAc
Click here to watch this interview!

Fasting and Inflammation

from Peter Osborne, DC, DACBN, PScD
Click here to watch this interview!

Creating a Fasting Lifestyle for

Hormone Optimization
from Daniel Pompa, PScD
Click here to watch this interview!

We’re happy that you’re taking time to From the entire Fasting Transformation
learn about living a healthier and happier Summit team, thank you for downloading
life, and we hope you’ll make us a regular these transcripts -- we hope you learn a lot
part of that journey! from them!
 1

Fasting, Ketosis and

Cancer
Nasha Winters, ND, FABNO, LAc

Dr. Jockers: Welcome, everybody, to Fasting consulting with researchers on projects involving
Transformation Summit where we are uncovering immune modulation via mistletoe, hyperthermia,
the most ancient, inexpensive, and powerful and ketogenic diet. She lives in Durango,
healing strategy known to mankind. We’re talking Colorado. We were just talking about how there’s
about fasting. And I’m your host, Dr. David snow out there right now. I’m in Atlanta, Georgia
Jockers. here, doing this interview in October. And it’s
absolutely beautiful. It’s like the perfect time of
And I’m excited about today’s interview because year out here. She’s in Colorado in the snow. She
we’re going to go into cancer, the idea of basically loves that. I don’t. That’s why I live in the South.
the metabolic theory of cancer. And really we’ve
been told that cancer is a genetic disease for so Her book, which she co-authored with Jess
long that we really weren’t given much hope other Higgins Kelley, is The Metabolic Approach to Cancer.
than conventional medical therapies and what’s Amazing book, I highly recommend it, one of
happening with science and also with healing the best books I read this year. And that’s why I
breakthroughs that are going on with a lot of invited her on to my Keto Edge Summit, as well
different practitioners. We’re realizing that that’s as this Fasting Summit because she is a pioneer
just not the case, and that fasting and ketosis in this area, and is a wealth of knowledge, and
can actually be really powerful tools to help in also just has an incredible personality. It’s very
preventing cancer and also modalities that we endearing.
can utilize, lifestyle interventions that we can
utilize in order to overcome cancer and if we want So, Dr. Nasha, thanks for being on the Fasting
to do natural therapies or if we want to do it in Transformation Summit. And I am saying your
combination with conventional therapies, name right, right?

And so I brought on a good friend of mine who Dr. Winters: You are rocking it.
also happens to be an expert in this area. This is
Dr. Nasha Winters. And Dr. Nasha is the founder, Dr. Jockers: Because I know everybody gets that
CEO, and visionary of Optimal Terrain Consulting. wrong.
She’s a nationally board-certified naturopathic
doctor, licensed acupuncturist, and a fellow of Dr. Winters: Exactly, exactly. It is now
the American Board of Naturopathic Oncology. emblazoned into your brain.
She lectures all over the world, training physicians
in the application of mistletoe therapy, and Dr. Jockers: That’s right. That’s right. Well, tell us

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 2

your story and how you got into this. At the time I stumbled upon an outdated textbook
talking about the work of Dr. Otto Warburg and
Dr. Winters: Sure. Well, my experience is pretty the metabolic approach to cancer. And from
basic. I had a diagnosis that left me with no everything I was learning and reading at that time,
options. Unfortunately, I had a lot of symptoms. that is the one thing that jumped out at me and
I had a lot of illness and a lot of health issues in stuck with me. Also, at that time, I started learning
my youth. And so part of that, I think, is what about naturopathic medicine. I was on my way to
kept me in the dark about what was going on for conventional medical school. That was my goal,
me because it was sort of normal for me to have my journey, my vision.
major digestive issues and pain patterns and
hormonal patterns and period patterns that it just Obviously my life had a different plan. And I
sort of evaded my attention for some time. It was started running across the ancient works of
more of just the same. people like Benedict Lust and other pioneers
of the naturopathic medical field, which utilize
By the time it really started getting bigger and fasting as a means to heal the body. Of course,
louder and landed me in an emergency room we didn’t know about autophagy and even
several times a month over several months mitochondria at that time, of their work in the
before the official diagnosis, just shy of my 20th earlier 1800s.
birthday—so I was 19 at the time—of a terminal
ovarian cancer process. I was so sick and so far But what we now know today when we look at the
gone that my organs were in failure. I was filled work of these pioneers way ahead of us is they
with ascites. I was terribly cachetic. And they knew were on to something. And unfortunately, thanks
that even pulling the fluid out of my belly could to things like Watson and Crick and the DNA
possibly kill me because of the fluid shift. And understanding of our moving in that direction of
they also knew that chemotherapy at the stage diseases as a DNA issue, as a broken gene issue,
where my organs were at that time would have we kind of left a lot of these pieces behind.
absolutely killed me.
But I’m here to tell you at that age when I was so
So they basically said, “You’re going to die either sick, and when you have that much cachexia and
way. You’ve got a few months at best.” And, of you are a body that looks and feels like you’re
course, I now know that I probably had a few nine months pregnant or beyond, you don’t
weeks at best, from what I know of the condition have room for food. So my ability to eat was
that I was in. And they said pretty much, “Get your nonexistent. And frankly I think I went an almost
affairs in order. We can’t even offer you therapy at 30-day fast in the beginning because I was so
this time.” sick. Anything I put down came back up. So I was
able to utilize accidentally out of sheer necessity,
So sometimes when we’re given no options, it an old tool that you are doing an entire summit
opens up many options. And so it set me on a about right now.
journey, 27 years later as of October 21st of 2018, I
have been learning and applying what I’ve learned Dr. Jockers: Absolutely. And I want to go into
to my body, as well as tens of thousands of more detail on cachexia and cancer and fasting
patients over these years. And that was informed as we go through. So we definitely want to come
fully by one of the things I stumbled upon in my back to that because obviously a lot of people
small, relatively underfunded liberal arts school. that are dealing with cancer are dealing with

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 3

cachexia. And the idea of fasting just seems so So those are patterns we’re very out of rhythm,
counterintuitive. So we’ll definitely come back to which when we we’re out of rhythm on our
that. metabolism via sugar metabolism, and we’re out
of rhythm with our circadian rhythm from light/
But before we do that, the title of your book is dark cycles, that throws off our hormones, our
Metabolic Approach to Cancer. So what do you stress chemistry, obviously our sleep patterns, our
mean by the metabolic approach? emotional wellbeing, our microbiome, our ability
to deal with toxicants in our world around us. It
Dr. Winters: Well, the metabolic approach, there throws off the whole terrain.
are multiple ways to get your energy system
moving properly and being flexible to whatever And so in helping my patients understand what
conditions it meets. So when I talk about a is off in their terrain and prioritize and start to
metabolic approach to cancer, I’m talking about address those and restore the rhythm in their
manipulating our chemistry back to the way lives helps to make them that metabolically
nature intended. We have pretty much done flexible being who has a much better outcome
everything against nature in living on the planet to conventional therapies, to non-conventional
today. therapies, and even for folks who are striving to
prevent chronic illness and cancer overall.
So things that affect our metabolic motor, of
course, our first thought is food. So we’ve become Dr. Jockers: Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s very
pure sugar burners since the 1850s when we thorough. And I love the idea of the terrain
started to process sugar and flour and started to because, in a sense, we’re biological beings. And
put it in everything. In fact, we were all low carb so that that’s the same concept of we’re trying
before that time. About 30% of our calories came to grow a garden, a garden has essential needs.
from carbohydrates, which, today we would say, We need soil that has nutrients in it. We need
“Oh, that’s a very low carb diet,” whereas today an water, good, clean water. We need a non-toxic
average of 70% of our diet is carbohydrates. environment. We need sunshine. And we need
love.
So we’ve, in a short period of time, changed that
engine where we should have been effortlessly And so it’s kind of that idea of if we want to have
into burning sugars and burning fats and adapting a really good garden, we need that. And we can’t
in our environment and our world around us. have weeds overgrowing either. So you think
We’ve now kind of gotten stuck in one gear. And about like infections and things like that. And
that’s where we’ve been in the sugar-burning so you use this idea of the terrain ten. Can you
gear. describe each of these ten elements? You go into
a lot more detail in your book, so people can pick
Add to that light. Light has come on…I should say that up. But I would love for you to touch on each
fake light. So bringing on artificial light into our of these elements so people really have a good
world has just been detrimental to our burning of understanding of the holistic idea of our bodies
our metabolic engine as the food we ingest. And and how it works together.
then things like blue screen time in and of itself
is far more toxic to the mitochondria than even Dr. Winters: Absolutely. And I love that you
probably sugar. precluded that with a garden analogy because
that’s precisely why I use the terminology

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 4

“terrain.” I resonate with nature. And I think and bags of refined sugar into your gas tank. You
my patients can understand even if they’re not might sputter down the road for a while. But it’s
gardeners, those metaphors go far. not going to last long. And in essence it’s rusting
us from the inside out.
So the first of the terrain 10 patterns, and these
are patterns that over 25, 26 years of my own The next big thing that is very different to
journey and that of helping tens of thousands of our humanity in the last 60 years or so is the
patients is the main 10 patterns that impact our toxicant exposures. We are swimming in them.
ability to fight disease or contract disease. So it’s I love that we all do our best to eat organic. But
pushing us into a continuum of health or disease. unfortunately things like glyphosate, Roundup,
don’t know those boundaries. They don’t read
So the number one piece is our epigenetics. And I signs and say, “Organic, don’t spray here” because
believe you talked about this in other discussions, they drift. They have a 2-mile drift. They infuse our
both on this summit and previous. But basically water supply. They infuse our soil supply. And so
that’s what’s been handed down to us from the that is what we’re being exposed to constantly,
generations above us and things along the way even when you’re doing the best you can.
in those previous generations, like a world war
experience or extreme trauma can change our Plastics and other things have only been on the
epigenetic, our genetic expression, a toxicant market for a short period of our human evolution
exposure. time here. So there’s a lot of things, I think about
80,000 new chemicals since the 1960s, of which
So a lot of our Vietnam vets have come home only about 200 of them have been properly
with a lot of damaged DNA that they’ve passed tested. And we haven’t even really done the
on to their children because of things like agent testing for how they accumulate and bounce off
orange exposure. Those are examples. DES in our each other.
mothers who were trying to prevent miscarriage
of the mothers between late 1940s to 1970s Then it moves into how those chemicals in the
were put on these hormones that changed their foods we eat and epigenetic are impacting our
epigenetic expression, and made their children gut, our microbiome. This is huge. We have been
more susceptible to cancers and other illnesses in monocropping our food sources for the past 50,
the future. 60 years, which, guess what, has monocropped
our microbiome. And our health is really based
So those are some examples even that might on our microbiome diversity. So we have
have been the deck of cards you were dealt in this deconstructed the microbiome and monocropped
lifetime, how you play them is entirely up to you. ourselves, as well, which has made us also more
We can change their expression with our diet and susceptible to disease process.
lifestyle.
Then we spill into the immune system. And in my
Part of that diet and lifestyle is the next piece, world of cancer, that is critical. In fact, just a couple
which is the sugar. We’ve already talked about of years ago most of my oncology colleagues
why that’s changed so much where we went from unfortunately still denied the role of the immune
5 pounds on average of sugar per person per system in treating cancer. But now that it’s a
year to well over 175 pounds per person per year. billion-dollar drug industry, it’s now all the rage. In
Imagine how your car would run, dumping bags fact, it won the Nobel Prize in science this year.

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 5

So it’s something that I take extreme focus outdoors. And most of us don’t have any exercise
on in my patients because you can push back outside of walking to and from the kitchen or
the cancer all you want with any cytotoxic to and from our work, car to the work, that’s a
intervention. But if the immune system isn’t intact, problem. So we want to move the body.
it will come back and back and back. That’s why
even the American Cancer Society statistics show And then that segues into hormones, which you
that 70% of patients will have a recurrence after can already see how these connect. Not one of
an initial diagnosis. To me, that’s not okay. We’ve them is happening in a vacuum. But we are also
got to do something different. swimming in a hormone soup today. So I had a
conversation in an interview yesterday that there
Then after that, inflammation. We are an really isn’t such a thing as estrogen deficiency. It
inflammation nation. And what used to kill really doesn’t exist.
us were diseases of infections. Today we
die of diseases of inflammatory processes: There’s estrogen metabolism problems. There’s
cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, epigenetic issues that influence how our body
osteoporosis, Alzheimer’s. They are all very processes the hormones that we are being faced
inflammatory conditions. And we’re just inflamed with. We are already having a problem because of
thanks to and lots of the things I just talked to you certain SNPs with how our endogenous hormones
about: the food sources, the water sources, the work. But now we’re swimming and competing
air sources, the immune disruptions, medications, with endogenous hormones that are far more
the toxicants. All those things are contributing. aggressive in binding into the receptor site and
One of the bigger drivers of inflammation is sugar. way more difficult to kick out of the building. So
So that’s a biggie. that makes us feel like we need more hormones.
So we’re just layer caking and causing more
Then we spill into blood circulation and something problems.
known as angiogenesis. So angiogenesis is the
growth of new vasculature to a tumor. So it And really we are just in a soup of it from the
basically robs the body of its nutrients to give plastics to the endocrine disrupting chemicals
it directly to the tumor. They’re greedy little to the body care products that are very
buggers. They will divert all the attention and endocrine disrupting. Our body is just covered
all the nourishment to themselves. And they with millions of mouths. Our skin is our largest
particularly love low oxygen. And they particularly organ of elimination and absorption. And we
love lots of sugar. are smothering it with these chemicals that
are changing our epigenetics and changing our
So you want to oxygenate the tissues. Moving hormone expression.
your body, exercising, sauna, doing hyperbaric
oxygen therapies that strongly oxygenate the And then the final two to me are very woven in
tissues. CoQ10 is a really great way to oxygenate together is circadian rhythm, which won the Nobel
the tissues because it also helps the heart. It’s Prize in 2017. And I should also add that for sugar,
heart food, is what I tell my patients. So it helps 2016’s Nobel Prize went to autophagy, which is
the heart move better. So those are important. the entire experience of what we’re talking about
today. But circadian rhythm and being out of
And so if you sit on your butt all day as most rhythm is very damaging to our immune system,
Americans do…We spend less than 15 minutes to our hormone system, to our psychology, to

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 6

our microbiome, everything. And that is often Dr. Winters: Unbelievable results because I’m
triggered by stressors from the environment and also a pretty obsessive blood test person. So I
our response to stress. don’t guess. I tell my patients we test. We assess.
We address. We retest. Then we adapt as we need
So it’s also impossible to get away from stress to. We, for the most part, are looking at people’s
today. And we are swimming in that, as well. And labs monthly, and at the very least every three
then, of course, all of these things impact our months, so quarterly. So we are watching our
psyche, our mental/emotional health, which is the results in real time. And we are watching patterns
10th. And our mental/emotional health impacts completely resolve in real time.
those other nine terrain items.
It can happen in a matter of days, as we’ve seen
We know things like having an elevated ACE score, when we’ve done immersion retreats, cancer
an adverse childhood events score, anything retreats where we’ve done their labs, basic CBC,
basically over two out of 10 yesses on that CMP, and what my patients call the trifecta: LDH,
questionnaire increases your likelihood of cancer CRP, and SED rate right before we do our retreat,
and chronic illness into your adulthood. And these and then test it a week or two after and see
are 10 things you would have been exposed to that we’ve changed parameters drastically from
before the age of 18. inflammation to blood sugar to overall immune
function, nutrient absorption, organ function,
So we know that shock, trauma, neglect, abuse etc. We can see that in just days of what we can
absolutely changes our ability to fight disease. change.
And if you then are staying in an abusive
relationship or a toxic work environment, how can And one of the things that kind of segues into
you possibly heal when you are being met with what we are going to be talking about is one of
those types of things every day? the most profound ways to change your labs very
quickly is a three-day fast. And there’s multiple
So, phew! That was a big one! Kind of blasted ways to do that: three-day water fast, three-day
through it. dry fast, three-day bone broth fast. Those are
things that can still help the body change its blood
Dr. Jockers: I’m glad that I asked that question, content, it’s physiologic content literally within a
though, because I’ve been in this industry matter of days.
for a long time: 10 years practicing, probably
20 years studying it. And I’ve heard so many Dr. Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. It’s so powerful.
different people categorize all the major causes, And let’s go into that. How can fasting be used
contributing factors to chronic disease. But I don’t as a tool for somebody? Let’s say somebody has
think I’ve actually heard somebody categorize it as a family history of cancer. Like I have a family
well as you have. So I really appreciate that. history of cancer. And I actually had developed
skin cancer, as well, at 28. And this is one of
And it’s really a masterpiece book that you the motivating factors for me to put my body
wrote, categorizing that. And you’re such a great into a state of ketosis and utilize this metabolic
spokesperson for it. And so by addressing the approach.
terrain 10 and using this metabolic approach,
what kind of results are you seeing with your And I actually had found Dr. Thomas Seyfried’s
patients? work in 2011, and started applying that, and had

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 7

great results for myself personally. And so now I So that literally means finishing dinner at, say,
just apply it, number one, to prevent disease, but 7 PM, and not eating again until 8 AM. So you’re
also actually number two to thrive. I personally sleeping through the lion’s share of that time. And
thrive utilizing this fasting lifestyle, fasting what they’ve been able to show…And we’re not
ketogenic style lifestyle. tweaking anything else but that. That alone lowers
the risk of recurrence. And this is over 40,000,
So if somebody is out there and they have a family I believe, women that were studied for this. It
history of cancer, how can they apply fasting? And lowers their risk of recurrence by 70% compared
how can that help prevent cancer? to someone who is having that late night snack
or eating right when they bolt out of bed in the
Dr. Winters: Well, if you are just completely new morning or even awake in the middle of the night
to this and you are still pretty attached to the and need to eat.
standard American diet and you don’t know really
what your labs look like and you don’t really know In fact, if you have to have a snack or wake up
what your overall health is, first of all I would hungry or have to eat right in the morning, that is
really strongly recommend you get someone your first clue that you are metabolically inflexible.
on your team to make sure you are safe to do We should all be able to easily and effortlessly go
something like this, to embark on something like thirteen hours without eating. If you can’t, you
this. definitely need someone on your team to start
digging under the hood. That’s the first starting
So a chiropractic physician, a naturopathic point. That’s an easy one.
physician, a functional medicine practitioner,
a functional therapeutic nutritionist, not an RD And then if you want to start push it a little bit, I
nutritionist. I’m sorry, but you have to qualify. I’ve have my patients… A cancer patient who is in a
got a lot of RD nutritionist recovering friends who stable place in my practice who’s like, “I want to
will also celebrate that. keep getting good response to my treatments.
I want to keep things at bay. I want to keep
But basically you need someone who has things stable. I want to keep pushing back the
nutritional training, which you don’t get from your progression,” we do a 13-hour every day. Twice a
medical doctors unfortunately. It’s just not part of week we do a 16- to 18-hour fast. So that’s eating
their curriculum. And some of them have gone on in a 6- to 8-hour window twice a week. And then
and studied on their own. Obviously we have a lot once a month we do a three-day fast.
of colleagues definitely enhanced that knowledge
base. But for the most part, it’s going to be hard For those that are a bit depleted or scared of
to find. So make sure you’re set with somebody fasting, I have them bring on bone broth, really
along those lines. good high quality organic clean, clean, clean bone
broth, preferably homemade. But there’s a few
But what’s a very safe place to start is simply what companies that I like out there in the freezer
I call a 13-hour fast. And this is based on basic section that are actually quite good, thoughtful
studies even in the last six months from places like about their process. And, of course, as much
MD Anderson, simply showing that women—we’re water, as much sea salt, and as much herbal tea
not even talking about what they’re eating. We’re as they want.
just simply saying they have a range of 13 hours
where they’re putting nothing into their bodies. Most people get through that first day, and they’re

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 8

like, “I don’t need any more bone broth.” They were talking about, calorie restricted, plant-based
feel great. It’s a psychological issue for sure. That ketogenic approach, which is what the fasting
is their ongoing maintenance program. People mimicking diet is. And then we’re pulsing it with
like Dr. Longo’s work and what I definitely do with some sort of really strong oxidative therapy, in
people who are doing chemo—chemo may be this case chemotherapy or radiation. It becomes
every three weeks or every month—is have them so much more effective.
do the 5-day protocol.
Dr. Winters: It does. And just to add to that, there
Now, Dr. Longo’s work has brought on the have been plenty of studies. And talking to my
prolonged fasting mimicking diet approach. That radiation oncology colleagues who are hip to this
works very nicely for folks who are petrified of way of approaching cancer, of which there’s a
not eating anything, or who have doctors that are growing force of them to be reckoned with, which
really pushing back on them doing this. So it’s like is fabulous. But we already know. We absolutely
our meeting-you-halfway approach. know without a doubt that sugar desensitizes
insulin, and sugar desensitizes our cancer cells to
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, it’s kind of a crutch to help radiation.
somebody.
We also know that it desensitizes to and lots of
Dr. Winters: It’s about what? 250 bucks a month? other therapies, including aromatase inhibitors
I’m like, “You can do this for free or the cost of and androgen deprivation therapy, PARP
bone broth.” But, again, that’s available. And what inhibitors, a lot of our targeted therapies, and
we’ve seen with that is that alone works better likely our chemotherapy. We just haven’t done
than the chemo. The chemo with that enhances. the studies in there to know. But I can tell you
It’s like an incredible burst because it’s helping from clinical experience, people’s labs sure
the body get through the treatment, have less look different when they are fasting with their
side effects, and actually drive the treatment into treatments. And their side effects and their
those now vulnerable cancer cells. symptoms and their recent recovery and their
quality of life through the process is absolutely
Cancer cells can’t adapt like our healthy cells better.
can. They get too cold or too hot. Or they get too
hungry, too depleted of certain nutrients. They When I speak to my colleagues who are oncology
are vulnerable. So when you act, you bring on nurses in my own community, they always say
a ketogenic state whether that was induced by they know my patients are. They’re like, “I don’t
fasting or a fasting mimicking diet or ketone salts, even have to ask. We know by how they’re
or a high-fat, low-carb ketogenic diet—there’s looking, how they’re feeling. They are able to
multiple ways to get there—you make those cells maintain their schedule through treatment,
very vulnerable. So it’s like that ketone state. It’s how quickly they bounce back, how positive and
the Trojan horse carrying in the death missile to energetic they are, what they’re eating when they
those cells. come in or not eating when they come in.” They’re
like, “I know who you’re seeing.”
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, it’s the press pulse concept
by Dr. Thomas Seyfried, metabolically pressing And that population of oncology nurses are also
the cancer with basically fasting or a ketogenic springing up around the country and seeing a
approach or a fasting mimicking diet like you difference as the patients are gathered around

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 9

together. It’s visually incredibly apparent, as well 30 minutes to at least drive you, kind of fake it till
as what they also see in the labs and how well the you make it, drive you into at least a nutritional
patients are tolerating therapy. We don’t have to state of ketosis, a therapeutic state to about
wait for expensive, long-term studies and analysis. your cancer cells to be more vulnerable to those
We’re seeing it in real life in real time. therapies coming in.

Dr. Jockers: Yeah, there are dozens of case When I have, let’s say, a month, that’s when after
studies, absolutely. And so if somebody is going the week I start having them check their urine
in for chemotherapy, let’s say they’ve got a week ketones. At that point, they should, especially if
prepare. What do you have them do? We are they are doing the 13-hour fast every day, that
doing this interview on a Thursday. Next Thursday would also be part of that first week. Maybe now
at 11 AM, they’ve got their first chemotherapy we are incorporating two days of 16-[hour] fasts
treatment. What should they do over the next a day. And we’re trying to check the urine. And
week? We talked about getting a functional once we see moderate to high ketones in the
practitioner. So let’s just say they start working urine, then we know we can graduate on to blood
on that. But what can they do at home to prepare ketones.
their body?
Now, if someone is dealing with a stage one
Dr. Winters: I love this. Simply speaking, get all or two cancer, maybe we are going to strive
of the heavy carbohydrates out from the get-go. for nutritional ketosis, which is anything below
We don’t even have to restrict beyond that. At this three on blood ketones. If someone’s got a very
point, when someone is brand new, I’m not even aggressive process and especially a brain cancer
looking at urine ketones. I’m not looking at blood process, I want them in the therapeutic level, so
ketone. I’m not looking at macros yet. Let’s just above three in the blood ketones. That would be
get simple. If we only have a week to prepare, I our goal, working towards that.
want you off all grains, all legumes, all sugary fruit.
I’m not even going to pull out berries or small But now these folks are always trying to become
Granny Smith apples at this point because that’s more metabolically flexible, then we start to have
sometimes ripping off of that Band-Aid that’s too them play with things like CRON-O-Meter, my
much. And that’s a little crutch for people. fitness pal, and start to put in their macros so they
can learn because everyone thinks they don’t eat
I also try and get them to pull off alcohol. And if sugar until you start to put your stuff into that. So
they must have alcohol, dry-farmed wines and even RDA nutritionists say we should be eating
maybe a shot of tequila, a shot of non-grain-based less than 100 g of carbohydrate today, then 25 g
vodka if they have to have that. I work with people or less of sugar a day, and women 20 g or less of
who are pretty much like boozaholics and fast sugar a day. Most of us are eating all of that by
food junkies. And so we start where they are. breakfast every single day.

So let’s just say you’re the standard American So that’s just RD nutritionists recommendations.
person coming in, that’s how I would do it, pull But if you are dealing with cancer, it is very
that out, not even restrict anything else. Then important, even if you’re not in ketosis, to get
the day you go in for treatment, maybe 20 or 30 yourself below 50 g of carbohydrate a day, below
minutes prior to the treatment, if you’re brand 20 g of sugar a day. If you are really trying to strive
new to my world, maybe take a ketone salt 20 to for a state of metabolic flexibility, you want to

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 10

maybe push that lower, maybe below 30 and 10. entire day. And you’re going to then break the fast
Those are the places you play with. But any step on…So if you had it Thursday morning, I’d have
you take in that direction is going to make a very my patients break the fast Saturday morning at 11
positive difference. It does not have to be perfect AM.
to be effective.
So that is a five-day fast. That is based on the
Dr. Jockers: That’s a great, great word right there. research of Dr. Longo. That is also based on the
You don’t have to be perfect. You may not have to Prolon therapy mimicking diet that he offers that
be in the therapeutic range to get the benefit. covers that window, as well. You can do it with
water. I do not recommend a dry fasting at all for
Now, let’s say somebody’s been going at this my cancer patients. Your electrolytes are way too
for a while, following maybe they’ve listened funky. So I want to put that on the table. But you
to a lot of these summits, they’re following a can definitely do it with water, herbal teas, and
ketogenic diet. They still have cancer. They’re often bone broth, especially if they’re on some
doing the chemotherapy. And let’s say they have it things that are really depleting their electrolytes
tomorrow. What would be your ideal fast? Would during this time.
it be a 16-hour fast before? 18, 24? Is there any
research on the minimal?… I don’t know how Plus, if you’re on keto, you’re depleting your
to say it, but the amount of time where you get electrolytes. So it’s nice to have the bone broths
the most benefit before chemotherapy as far as for my folks that are a bit vulnerable. But once
fasting? And then after that, it’s pretty much the you get good at that, a lot of people actually don’t
same benefit. Minimal required dose. want or crave the bone broth after a while, which
is great. But ultimately that’s gold.
Dr. Winters: I like that. That’s good. That’s
good. So, actually, we do have some of that Silver would be last a meal on Wednesday at 11
data, which is pretty cool, again, thanks to AM. Then you have chemo at 11 AM on Thursday.
longevity researchers, people like Dr. Longo. But And then you break the fast at 11 AM on Friday.
a quick little side note there is all the longevity So the day before, day of, day after, circled around
researchers around the world have absolutely that. That’s the silver platform. There is still so
shown that caloric restriction and being a bit much happening in that time, of what you’re
underweight actually enhances your longevity, doing, in chemistry, it’s quite brilliant.
versus the opposite. I’m just throwing that onto
the table, and people start to freak because in the But the bronze, if you will, where you can get still
oncology world, the last thing they want you to do some bang for your buck, would be a 16-hour fast
is “lose weight.” But I’d like to circle back to that prior. So you have that 11 AM, just back that up
and cachexia in a bit. that your last meal is, what, sometime in the mid
afternoon.
But specifically what you are discussing, the
perfect gold…So I give my patients the gold and Dr. Jockers: Right. Or an early dinner the night
the silver and bronze. So the gold would be if before. Yes, hydrate well the morning of.
you have chemo at 11 AM on Thursday morning,
your last meal is at 11 AM on Tuesday morning. Dr. Winters: Exactly. Take your mug of bone
That’s your last meal. And then you’re coming into broth if you’re scared to the chemo. But definitely
chemo fully fasted. You’re going to fast to that something with a lot of hot tea and things that

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 11

are very nurturing. I love to drink ginger tea. But, really like that.
yeah, that’s how I would do it.
Dr. Winters: Maybe your little one needs some
Dr. Jockers: How about some exogenous ketones! [Laughs]]
ketones? I know you had mentioned that. So
that’s another thing that they can do maybe Dr. Jockers: Yeah! Oh, can you hear my little one?!
beforehand.
Dr. Winters: It’s okay. It’s good for me. I just
Dr. Winters: Especially, if they’re hungry, that cracked up because I just laughed about your little
will kind of pop them out of it pretty quickly. Like one and my dogs who are wandering around.
a pack of those, there’s lots of different brands
out there. But if you offer a typical dose, often Dr. Jockers: Yeah, I’ve got twins. By the time the
my patients only need like a quarter to even half summit runs, they will be three.
of that just to kind of pump a little bit, just kind
of clear the brain, clear the shakies because they Dr. Winters: Get out! I forgot about that!
might, especially if they’re new to this, they might
be going through a low carb withdrawal at the Dr. Jockers: Yeah, and then I also have a five
same time. So the ketones can really help them month old, as well. So this house, there’s always a
get over that hurdle. somebody crying in the house.

Dr. Jockers: Yeah, and typically the ketone salts Dr. Winters: Usually you and your wife, I’m
usually have a bunch of electrolytes. So you can assuming, are crying?
benefit there. Plus the ketones go up. So that’s
going to reduce the inflammazones. So when you Dr. Jockers: That’s right. Well, I will tell you that
get that chemotherapy in there, that can be a nice having three kids under three is a lot of work. And
little crutch for you. using fasting has really helped because my energy
is amazing. My productivity is incredible.
Dr. Winters: I love it. Definitely even if I have folks
in robust levels of therapeutic ketosis, even before People are like, “How are you doing so much
an oxidative therapy like hyperbaric, radiation, and being there for your family?” In years past, it
hyperthermia, high dose IV vitamin C, I would would have just a totally dragged me out. I would
have them take 20, 30 minutes before ketone have been so burned out. But fasting has really
salts. I want them really topped in those oxidative supported me no matter what kind of stress I’m
therapies like that because those go in hard and under. I’m just so resilient. And fasting helps. And
come out pretty fast. that’s one of the reasons why I was inspired to do
this summit here.
And so take advantage of that with the ketones.
It really is protective to the whole, but also really And so you’ve given us some really great advice as
drives those therapies because they tend to have far as how people can apply fasting, particularly
a lot of fallout, a lot of tumor lysis, a lot of cytokine when it comes to cancer and cancer therapies. So
release. And that can just feel yucky. So that will let’s talk about, because we wanted to touch base
help them with the yuckies. on cachexia because obviously… And I have a
patient going through this right now where she is
Dr. Jockers: [baby cries in background] Wow, I very, very, very thin. And she’s very, very worried

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 12

about fasting at this point. And so the idea, the investigation. Being skinny is not dangerous, does
thought would be, well, if you fast, you’re going to not kill you. Being cachetic does. Forty percent of
lose even more weight. And, of course, the doctor cancer patients succumb to cachexia. So it’s a big
is saying, “It doesn’t matter what you eat. Just eat deal.
a lot. And you just need to gain weight. You need
your energy. You need to eat for your energy.” But the reason why they succomb is you’re being
And so what are your thoughts on that? treated for it incorrectly.
And they’re terrified to do anything different
Dr. Winters: First of all, so wrong on so many because they are trusting at this point really
levels! It’s hard for me not to even throw F bad, really outdated advice. So cachexia, the way
bombs or what-the-hell bombs on this. It’s insane someone is actually in cachexia is to look at their
because we actually have loads of evidence labs, not their bodies. Don’t look at the bodies.
showing that that suggestion we’ve given to The bodies mean nothing because you have
cachexic patients for 50 years in oncology has fat, fat people in cachexia. And you have super
never worked ever. They could eat 20,000 skinny people down to skeletor levels that are not
calories, drink a Boost shake every hour, get cachetic at all.
totally paranoid on nutrition, and you will die of
cachexia. The labs are the determining factor. We are
actually looking for something known as
In fact, what I’m here to tell you is those are sarcopenia. So all in combination, for someone
absolutely going to speed up the dying process. to be in a state of cachexia, you have to have at
My colleagues in the oncology world, and nurses least two things happening: low albumen under 4,
in hospital wards everywhere, when someone and low protein under 7. If both of those are low,
gets on something like TPN, they call it the death I know they’re in a state of low grade cachexia. If
March. This is known as the beginning of the we also see low, low calcium below 8.8 and low
end. So that might scare some people who are creatinine below six, we are in full-blown cachexia.
listening to this. That’s why there’s better ways.
You can even get keto-friendly TPNs that are at And if you look at their creatinine and what not,
least better. They’re not very clean. But they’re a you’ll also see those are quite empty. They’re
heck of a lot better. Request better options. breaking down muscle very, very quickly. You’ll
see the elevated LDH, lactate dehydrogenase in
Dr. Jockers: At least they’re not loaded with sugar. these patients. That’s when you know you’re in a
If you look at Ensure, the first couple ingredients freefall of sarcopenia, cachetic state. Looking at
are corn maltodextrin, which is GMO sugar. And someone, measuring them on a scale will never
they have actual sugar. Then they have glucose. tell you anything , not even body fat.
Then they have fructose. So it’s like the first four
ingredients. And they have corn oil and soybean Dr. Jockers: Exactly. And that all comes from a
oil right afterwards. simple, complete blood count

Dr. Winters: And the only thing that ensures Dr. Winters: $12 out of pocket.
is your death. Cachexia is a state of metabolic
dysregulation. It’s not a calorie in, calorie out Dr. Jockers: Yeah, exactly.
process. So there’s a few things here. Cachexia is a
metabolic process that you can see on laboratory Dr. Winters: $12 out of pocket. So here’s the

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 13

difference. A story that I always highlight to my And that they do because their brains aren’t
patients so they understand how big of a deal working. They’re very starved. And so in my
this is. We had people who survived unbelievable cachexia patients, sometimes we need a little bit
atrocities through the Holocaust, through World more protein. We never need more carbohydrate.
War II in these concentration camps that were
literally starved down to nothing but bones. Dr. Jockers: What are your thoughts about
branched-chain amino acids, supplements like
Here’s all these people that somehow survived that?
those atrocities. And the second we burst open
the doors and came in to liberate them, we Dr. Winters: That can definitely help. And if I
handed them candy bars. Do you know how many have access to patients in an environment where
thousands more patients died right after that? they have an integrative practitioner that does
We’ve lost count. We don’t even know for sure. IV therapy, we bring on amino acid IVs. We bring
What happened and what stimulated an entire on amino acid lipids. We do a lot of things to
study of this was something called refeeding intervene.
syndrome. Look it up, folks.
I even have, through Charlie’s Foundation, they
This is what your doctors are to you when they make a cookbook called Blender Keto. We put that
put you on TPN, when they put you on Boost into feeding tubes. I’ve had patients in, we put
and Ensure, especially if you’ve been eating into feeding tubes things like that and they’ve
a metabolically flexible kind of diet, a lower completely come out multiple times. In fact, I have
carbohydrate diet or been fasting and they put a few that will tell their stories someday of this.
that in, the danger of actually putting you into
immediate organ failure is very real. I have patients who have gone fasting because of
bowel obstructions, 10, 12, 20, 30 days and gone
I’ve seen it. That’s one of the things I’ve seen kill back in for a scan to start to initiate therapy when
my patients over and over and over and over in it seems like their bowels were moving again
the years, no matter how much I’m screaming and no evidence of cancer. I’ve seen that’s over
this at them and their family members, they get and over and over and over again, to much of
bullied into this. And I’ve luckily been able to pull everybody’s dismay.
people through it. But the only way personally I
have ever seemed to overcome cachexia is with In fact, I just had that response yesterday from a
a metabolic flexible state, whether that’s high-fat, patient who has been fasted because of a bowel
low-carb, whether that’s fasting and ketone self- obstruction from ovarian cancer. And everyone
supplementation, those are the only ways I have was ready to start blasting her with radiation
personally ever seen. and chemotherapy. And she went in to have a
debulking first because they thought, well, maybe
Luckily people Dom D’Agostino now and others we can get some of the tumor out of the way now.
are doing research. We actually have several They got in there, and it wasn’t cancer. She had a
trials going on on this. We know and have known little twist in her colon.
for some time that more calories and more
carbohydrates will never overcome this. And yet And she has been implementing fasting a lot.
the first thing patients are told is, “Eat whatever And this is a woman who had had no response to
you want. Eat a lot of pasta. Eat a lot of bread.” conventional therapies, had multiple recurrences

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 14

and progressions and has not been on chemo for overcome that blocked needing or wanting or
over 11 months now. So this is incredible that her having a desire to eat is medical marijuana and
oncologist luckily is so excited about it, he’s giving high CBD. This is one of the biggest gifts. The
my book to every one of his patients, has been for formulation that we created for our patients was
months now just watching her process. a CBD formulation. We basically made our own
shake. Because of FDA regulations, we did not
But you do not underestimate the power of a free have $1 million to infuse into it.
therapy. And do not get swindled and seduced by
very outdated, misinformed dietary advice with But I have a lot of patients who will tell you that it
regards to your cancer care. saved to their ass a couple of times. So then we
have them build it themselves. We kind of have
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. So true. And the foundation, then they added their own stuff
cachexia patients can really do a lot of things that with recipes. Eventually we know we are going to
we are talking about in this summit. One of the get an investor who wants us to actually turn this.
concepts we talk about is one of the feast/famine, “We’d like it to be the next Boost or Ensure,” but a
where we are consuming similar amounts of whole different ballgame.
calories roughly. We’re not necessarily counting
calories. But we are eating to satiety. We’re just And so we have people interested obviously
eating less often. So the meals will be larger because it’s a huge issueto worry about because
typically, although satiety points can change. with sarcopenia, cachexia, not just in cancer but
We’re not trying to force feed beyond satiety. But in cardiovascular congestive heart failure, AIDS
if they were to reduce their feedings to two to processes, other muscular, MS and Lou Gehrig’s
possibly one time a day, at times it can be really, disease, we see that sarcopenic wasting in a lot of
really powerful. other chronic conditions. So this goes beyond the
cancer patient, mind you, for sure.
Dr. Winters: What’s so interesting with cachetic
patients, their appetite goes away. It’s part of the Dr. Jockers: Yeah. Yeah.
condition. What I have to do, because if they try
and eat a big meal at one time, it backfires. So Dr. Winters: That’s actually how this formulation
I actually make those who are actually truly in got started was a patient who had a child that’s
cachexia, not the skinny ones, truly in a metabolic failure to thrive. And they didn’t expect him to
state of cachexia, I have them set an alarm. And I survive. And now he’s like eight years old.
have their family and friends rally around them.
And I have them eat something nutrient dense, Dr. Jockers: This is like a meal replacement with
typically high in fat every hour. CBD. That’s such a great idea. When it comes out,
I’ll invest.
And I warn them, “Your stomach is the size of a
fist. So I want you to at least, get a quarter of your So let’s talk about how you apply fasting. What
fist into your body every hour.” Then it starts to is your typical schedule like, let’s say on a week,
kind of reset and re-trigger the desire to eat again. a monthly basis, or however you apply either
It’s like you’re exercising a muscle that was a bit extended fasting or intermittent fasting?
depleted. And so that’s really powerful.
Dr. Winters: Perfect. Well, again, I had some
The other thing that can really help these patients accidental forced fasting early on. But then going

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 15

on with that process, I’ve learned that it was and do all those things.
actually good for my body to have a good 5 to
10 day fast each season. That’s basically how I’ve Every once in a while, I’ll eat. I’ll have a light meal
been doing it 27 years at this point on purpose at because my husband loves to cook. And that’s
that point. his love language. So I might eat something
small with him in the evenings on those days,
The other thing you had mentioned before the depending on our schedules and what’s going on.
show that you had just had a really bad illness So ultimately maybe a 22-hour fast for each of the
recently and kind of accidentally fasted, and it three days. But that’s huge.
did wonders for you. I had a similar situation
in Portugal many, many years ago. We don’t And then if I know if I’ve got something like
know quite what it was. We don’t know if it was holidays coming up, I will preempt because I
my cancer on the move, which is what we were know I give myself some flexibility. I’m super
actually thinking was going on, or what. metabolically flexible now that if I overeat
something in the carbohydrate place, the next
But I got super, super sick and couldn’t keep today I can be just within a 13- to 14-hour fast, I’m
anything down, likely a bowel obstruction. But already back into nutritional ketosis. I don’t have
I ended up fasting for two weeks, lying on the to try anymore. Just going to bed and waking up, I
couch. My sister in law, while she was traveling in can be in ketosis. That’s a beautiful place to be.
the US I was staying in her place in France. And
couldn’t eat a thing. Couldn’t get off the couch, But around the holidays, here’s where I know
nothing. And at the end of that two weeks, it I maybe will push my limits a little bit. I might
was like finally—this was early on in my cancer thoughtfully do a longer fast before and after just
diagnosis—I popped through something really as pre-cleanup and post cleanup.
big, and frankly never went back to square one
where I had been really struggling for a couple Dr. Jockers: Yeah, Absolutely. It really gives you
of years to get me out of that place. So that was more freedom in a sense, time freedom because
an incredible moment for me. And that’s why it you’re not trying to prepare meals, mental
became a ritual seasonally. freedom because especially fasting, I always tell
people it’s like exercise. When you first to get
But today I still kind of like to do a 3- to 5-day fast started, it’s very uncomfortable. You don’t feel
minimum seasonally. But when you talk about good. You think it’s a horrible thing.
how you can cope with three little ones under
the age of three and life and your work and But as you start to train your body, you actually
everything else, my jamming days, I have 16-hour start to crave it and thrive under it. I know for me,
work days: Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, I do three days a week where I do one meal, kind
just to back to back, really dense patient of like what you’re dealing. So for me it’s typically
schedules. That’s when I fast. That’s when I’m Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday. I just do one
most on. And that’s when I’m clear as a whistle. meal. And then my workout days where I do
strength training, I do two meals on those days,
Most of the time I’ll just not eat anything during Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday typically.
that time, maybe a cup of broth here and there if
needed, lots and lots and lots of herbal tea, and And it’s like by the time I get to Wednesday, my
lots and lots of water. And I sauna and I work out body is ready for the 24-hour fast I’m about to

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 16

do. I’m craving it. I haven’t eaten since lunch season. Those are kind of my cheats. That’s what I
yesterday. And I feel amazing. My body is craving will include and gravitate for it. I could give a crap
this more extended period of time when you start about the bread or grain.
to do that.
Dr. Jockers: Those are great seasonal fruits.
And it does give you more freedom to where Beautiful, yeah. Absolutely. And that brings up
your body is more carb tolerant as you build this just the fact that a lot of people think fasting is
fasting muscle. Even though you obviously want something maybe men can do. Fasting is very
to make good food choices, you don’t have to be popular online. And most of the people that are
quite as strict when you do eat because you are teaching fasting are men. So a lot of people are
eating less often. And that’s a great thing. thinking…

Dr. Winters: And another strategy you just made We have a lot of women speakers on this summit.
me think of when you were describing ways that And so a lot of people think, well, women can’t
you fast, I always when I do international flights, fast, or fasting is bad for women. And so you’re
I just don’t eat because the food is like poison. I here, a woman, fasting. And you’ve been doing
don’t want to haul all my food with me on a 12-, this for 27 years, applying this. And you’re working
13-hour flight. And I get off that plane. When I with a lot of women that are fasting. So what are
used it to eat, even if I brought my own food, I your thoughts on that?
would have terrible lymphedema because of my
own medical history for days after. If I don’t eat Dr. Winters: Well, I’m glad you brought that up
now on international flights, I get no lymphedema. because there is a little bit of mythology around
That was a bit odd. I tried that event a couple this. You want to work with someone’s chemistry.
years ago. I was like how did I never know this? But I’ll be a little TMI for a moment. But I’m
definitely moving in at 47 years old, moving into
It even short flight, I just know on travel days if I’ve perimenopause. And some things are changing in
got a total of six hours or more a day of travel, I my body. And I actually find right before my cycle,
just don’t eat just to keep me ready. So especially I can’t fast. I get hungry. So I listen to my body.
if I’m going to a conference, like I’m getting ready
to go speak at a conference in San Francisco this And as soon as the weather starts to get cold,
weekend. I won’t eat on the day traveling so that the first bit, I’m like, “I can’t fast this week.” But
I can be crisp and clear from my talk on Saturday I’m doing things like more broth-y. I’m still eating
type of thing. So that’s how I’ve just learned how maybe caloric restricting in those days. But I just
my body responds, and how she wants it done. listen to my own feedback. But as far as thyroid,
the myth that this hurts your thyroid, my thyroid
For people, I don’t cheat because my body really is working for the first time in my entire life by
freaks out. I can’t do grain. I’ve got celiac. So I incorporating fasting on a regular basis.
don’t ever. So I know my own places. It’s not worth
it to me to go and have a piece of cornbread. But as far as stamina and adrenal function, for
It just isn’t. But other people have a little more me my particular SNP profile, for my particular
flexibility to that. But when I can cheat more on is chemistry, this actually lessens the stress mode
I love a really good keto Margarita or a beautiful because my body gets stressed when it has to
glass of wine. Or I love when cherry season was in digest. I’ve always joked with my husband, “I wish
in July. It didn’t throw me out of ketosis, or peach I could be a breatharian.” Because I feel a shift.

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 17

My chemistry is so sensitive. I’m a canary in a coal you start listening to the messages that your body
mine with so many foods and so many things gives you. You have better intuition and a better
because of my medical history and the types I was overall perspective on food and your emotions.
and as a baby and what not. It’s really messed
with my microbiome that I’m just very vulnerable. Dr. Winters: I love that because most of us in
So I, for me, feel better. the world today use food to treat our emotional
being, especially if we use carbohydrate, sugary,
Now, women who are concerned about this, starchy rich foods. I asked my patients, “What
that’s why I don’t have them do just water fasts. sweetness are you lacking in your life that you
That’s why a bone broth is absolutely fantastic. have to fuel it with this?” That sometimes gets a
You are not causing any problems with this. little bit of a whoa kind of moment.
You’re getting all of your major minerals and
nutrients. And if you want, I love things like Dr. But food is medicine. And it’s love. And it’s a
Cowan’s Greens through DrCowansGarden.com. celebration. And it’s connection. And so what I
You can sprinkle those into your bone broth to try and help folks realize is there are other ways.
get a little nourishment if you feel like, “I have You can still have a bone broth evening with your
to get something more in here.” Take a little girlfriend. Have them come over. Or instead of
tablespoonful of coconut oil if you just feel like going out to dinner or going out for cocktails with
you need something. But it’s more emotional. It friends, go for a walk in nature. Go do something
really is. else. You start to find other ways to connect and
create new ritual and new sweetness to bring in
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, it really is. That’s really the different sweetness from different aspects of your
biggest thing. It’s a mental/emotional block. And world around you.
I think what people have to realize, again, it’s
like exercise. If you went to the gym if you were Dr. Jockers: Yeah, I love that. I typically fast
sedentary, you had not worked out in, let’s say, through dinner when I’m doing my fast. Breakfast
10 years, or your whole life, you went to the gym and dinner, I usually eat lunch typically unless I’m
and you worked out with a personal trainer, traveling or something like that. And my wife loves
somebody who was really pushing you, you would it because dinner is when I’m with my family. And
be extraordinarily uncomfortable. my little boys need a lot of help.

Dr. Winters: For days. Dr. Winters: So you’re present with them!

Dr. Jockers: Yeah, and if you based all of exercise Dr. Jockers: So I’m like 100% with them, making
off that one experience, you would think, this is sure they’re eating all of their vegetables. I’m
terrible. How could people possibly do this? This 100% with them, which makes her life a lot easier.
can’t be good for anyone. Yet, in our society, of So it’s better. I’m more focused on whatever we
course we know that it’s not. We just understand are having a conversation about.
that. I just had a patient yesterday actually I was talking
to about this. And she’s like, “well, what do I do? I
And it’s really the same with fasting. Your first like to go out with my friends. But I don’t always
experience, don’t expect it to be comfortable or get to pick the restaurant.” And I said, “Well, do
fun. It’s not fun or comfortable. But as you start this. The days you don’t get to pick the restaurant,
to build up your fasting muscle, it gets easier. And you already know the restaurant they’re going to

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 18

choose and there’s just not healthy food on there, just a mental/emotional issue. I grew up in a big
that’s your fasting day. And you’re 100% focused family with lots of kids. And so it was like I didn’t
on the conversation and the relationship, not get attention. I had to fight for food. I had to eat
thinking about the food. And then you get a turn my food faster than my brothers and sisters to get
at some point to pick the restaurant. And then more.
that’s when you get a chance to obviously enjoy
the food with them. So it’s not like you always And so really, as I started fasting, it really opened
have to restrict yourself.” But being 100% focused me up to emotional growth and spiritual growth
on the conversation, the relationship, that’s in that area. And now it’s like my wife or whoever
something we’re typically not doing anyway.” can be eating whatever they want, even a food
that is healthy that I love. If I’m in a fasting mode,
Dr. Winters: Exactly. if I know I’m fasting, it has no impact on me.

Dr. Jockers: “And it’ll make you a better friend. Dr. Winters: I love it. That’s it exactly, exactly.
And I think it will change and shift your life in a Especially when you start to actually recognize
positive way.” That’s what I told her. And she was that you are taking the garbage out every single
like, “You know what? That’s true.” time you take that break. That’s why they call it
break-fast. We don’t break fast anymore. We are
Dr. Winters: I love that idea. That’s a really good in a constantly overfed and undernourished state
idea. And also, I’ll tell you, as a woman who’s got in our world around us. And when you can have
a really good sisterhood posse around me, you’d those little breaks, you start to gain clarity in other
be amazed after they have an experience of the aspects of your life, not just literally in the G.I.
way you live your diet or your lifestyle, they’ll want tract.
to join you on that. They’re like, “That feels really
good. That’s easier than I thought.” Dr. Jockers: Yeah. That is so true. This has been
such a great discussion. I could probably talk with
And now when I go out, we know exactly where you for hours. We can talk all day about this.
we can “safely” go eat. Or we go to each other’s
houses, and everyone knows what to bring out. But, with that said, what are some final words
It’s so funny now that we are easy with each other. of inspiration for the listeners? And where can
We all recognize that this is good for all of us, not people find out more about you?
just for me. They all kind of did it to humor me
and help me through my process. But they’re like, Dr. Winters: Well, Definitely The Metabolic
“Well, dang. My Hashimoto’s has totally improved. Approach to Cancer that I co-authored with Jess
My extra 20 pounds after baby is gone. My brain Kelley is a great start. Also one Facebook, you
is working better. My skin is better. My libido,” all can follow us under that same title, the book,
these different things. They’re like, “Could it really or optimal terrain, or under my name, Nasha
be that?” I’m like, “Yeah.” So it’s pretty cool. Winters. You can find me there, as well, and follow
the type of things I post regarding topics such as
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, it’s so powerful. And just this.
getting through the idea that you are being
deprived that’s so huge. And I know for me that Also, as far as a word of wisdom, we are just
was a big deal. It, to me, fasting seemed so lonely a living laboratories. You have to be willing to
and like I was being deprived. And it was really get outside of the conventional box and the

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 19

conventional misguided wisdom and just try It’s safe. It’s powerful. And it just might transform
some things on for you. There’s a million different your life. So hopefully you enjoyed this interview.
ways to fast or to get into ketosis or to become And if you’ve been enjoying the content we’ve
metabolically flexible. Start trying them on for size been putting out, then I want you to consider
and see what works for you. owning the entire Fasting Transformation Summit
for yourself. That way you get all the bonuses. You
And as I said earlier and a piece I’d like to leave get the transcripts. You get the MP3s so you can
everybody with is you don’t have to be perfect at be listening to these interviews. And that’s going
this to gain wonderful insight and gain wonderful to obviously improve your information load, your
benefit. education. And it’s also going to help empower
you.
Dr. Jockers: Love it. Well, there you guys have
it. That’s Dr. Nasha Winters, amazing Metabolic And I find it especially helpful if you’re just getting
Approach to Cancer. Definitely go out and get started with fasting, whether it’s intermittent
that book, especially for those of you that are fasting or an extended fast to be listening
practitioners or if you have a family history of to interviews like this because it’s going to
cancer. Her amazing book, I highly recommend it. inspire you and help you move through the
Again, it’s the best book I’ve read in 2018. We still uncomfortability and really get the results from
have 2 ½ months left. But I think you got it. I think it. So if you would consider owning this, we would
you got the prize. So thank you so much for your be really honored. And we’ll see you on a future
contributions. interview. Be blessed, everybody!

And for all the listeners out there, I want to

remind you of this, that fasting has the ability to
unlock the dormant healing potential with in you.

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 20

Fasting and Inflammation

Peter Osborne, DC, DACBN, PScD

Dr. David Jockers: Welcome, everybody, to the And so, Dr. Peter, thanks so much for joining us
Fasting Transformation Summit where we are for the Fasting Transformation Summit.
uncovering the most ancient, inexpensive, and
powerful healing strategy known to mankind: Dr. Peter Osborne: It’s great to be here, Dr.
fasting. I’m your host, Dr. David Jockers. Jockers. I’m happy to contribute.

And today, we’re talking about fasting and its Dr. Jockers: Absolutely. And so, Dr. Peter, let’s get
role with inflammation. We’re going to talk started with really talking about inflammation.
about what inflammation is, how you can test And what are the symptoms that someone might
for inflammation, different nutritional strategies experience if they have chronic inflammation in
you can do in order to reduce inflammation in their body? And what is inflammation?
your body. And we’re also going to talk about the
role of fasting and how it’s able to downregulate Dr. Osborne: Let’s first start by saying that
certain genetic pathways associated with inflammation is not bad or evil. It’s actually
inflammation and just keep inflammation under a necessary process in the body. And a lot
control in your body. of people have demonized it, unfairly so. I
think differentiating chronic inflammation
And so our guest for this topic is Dr. Peter that is unresolved versus natural, day-to-day
Osborne who is the clinical director of Origins inflammation.
Healthcare in Sugarland, Texas. And Dr. Peter,
I brought him on for this because when I think Inflammation is actually what our body does to
about inflammation I think about Dr. Peter break down old tissue, to break down old cells
Osborne. that are damaged and to rebuild those new cells
and those new tissues. So we need inflammation
He’s really an expert in this area. He has the kind of like a wrecking ball to tear down the
bestselling book No Grain, No Pain. He’s referred old termite-infested house. We’ve got to have
to as the gluten-free warrior. And he also travels inflammation, or a wrecking ball, to knock that
around the world, serves on many different old house down so that we can build a nice, new
advisory boards like Functional Medicine house that doesn’t have termite infestation.
University and the American Clinical Board of
Nutrition. His practice is centered on helping So we use inflammation as a healing tool. The
individuals with chronic, degenerative, and body uses that process. And so it’s less to do
autoimmune problems using natural methods. with inflammation and more to do with chronic,

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 21

unresolved inflammation that is out pacing repair. going to experience inflammation in their joints.
So when inflammation outpaces your capacity to It’s going to cause pain, muscular tightness.
repair, then your tissues start to break down. We For some, in their guts, in their intestinal tracts.
classify that as diseases. They’re going to have chronic gas or bloating or
diarrhea or gastrointestinal-like symptoms, things
And there are a host of different chronic, like heartburn or reflux.
degenerative, inflammatory diseases. Some
of the more common ones that people have So it varies from person to person. I would say
heard about are heart disease, diabetes, cancer, generally as a rule of thumb—and I’m going to
autoimmune disease. These are what we would point something else out because some people
classically consider the chronic inflammatory don’t know that they’re inflamed because they’ve
problems. always been inflamed to an aggressive degree. So
their normal is chronic inflammation.
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. And what are some
symptoms that somebody might experience And so if you’re experiencing symptoms of illness
before they get the diagnosis along the way? Let’s early on in life, I want you to understand. That’s
say they’re in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. They haven’t not normal. Even though you may have already
been diagnosed with anything. But they just don’t have been experiencing it your whole life, it’s still
feel good. What would be some symptoms they not normal. And it’s important to understand
might have chronic inflammation? and try to get somebody to help you differentiate
where that inflammation or where that problem
Dr. Osborne: This is a big one because there are could potentially be coming from or what could
a lot of symptoms. And different people will react be causing it.
in different ways. Some people will experience
chronic as brain fog or neurological problems, Dr. Jockers: Yeah, I totally agree. It’s one thing
depression, inability to think clearly. So it can to wake up, not feel great for one day. But when
affect a lot of people. It can affect their minds. It it continues to go on and on and on, you know
can affect their brains. that something’s going on right there. And you
definitely want to get to the root cause. So what
For some people, they’re going to experience are some labs that you like to run in order to find
it in the skin. They’ll get diseases like eczema, markers? What biomarkers are you really focusing
psoriasis, other inflammatory skin conditions like on when it comes to inflammation?
chronic acne. So it can affect the skin.
Dr. Osborne: Well, I like to be extremely
It can affect the liver, creating elevations in liver comprehensive when I’m looking into lab for
enzymes. Even though that person may not have people. I’ll give the audience certain biomarkers
“massive liver disease” when they go in and get that are simple to ask a doctor to run—something
their general blood work done, their liver enzymes like an erythrocyte sedimentation rate (or ESR).
are coming back a little bit elevated because their Although you can get a lot of false negatives on a
liver is slightly inflamed. test like that, it’s still one measure or one tool we
have.
For some people, they’re going to experience
inflammation in their bones. And it’s going to There’s another one called C-reactive protein. And
lead to progressive bone loss. For some, they’re I recommend if you’re going to have your doctor

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 22

run a CRP (C-reactive protein) that you have them So you want to make sure and ask your doctor
run a high sensitivity CRP. It’s just a little bit more to measure your nutritional status—your vitamin
accurate. It’s going to catch inflammation where a D, your vitamin A, your zinc, your chromium,
regular CRP test may miss it. your copper, your B vitamins, the whole gamut.
There are about 40 different essential nutrients.
I’m also going to encourage people to have And to me, if you’re really going to truly assess
testing. There’s a type of test called an MMP which inflammation at its core cause, you’ve got to
is another marker or measure for inflammation. measure nutritional status.
You can have your doctor measure something
called tumor necrosis factor-alpha. You can Then you also want to measure things like food
have your doctor measure interferon-gamma. response because food can create inflammation.
These are just different biochemical markers for So having food measured if very, very important
inflammation. because you could be eating blueberries—I once
had a patient who was terminal because of a
Homocysteine is another good one. It’s a marker blueberry allergy. A blueberry allergy which is a
that can indicate vascular inflammation as caused healthy food! It’s a super food. But for this person,
by B vitamin deficiencies. Homocysteine will it wasn’t. One man’s food is another man’s poison.
elevated when we have deficiencies of folate, So measuring food can sometimes be a very,
vitamin B12, vitamin B6, vitamin B2. So it’s one of very keen insight into what might be creating or
those markers that can give you more than just triggering an inflammatory response or hyper
one piece of information. inflammatory response.

But ultimately, I want you to understand that And we also have chemicals in the environment.
inflammation is controlled in a large part by what So measuring those and avoiding those as much
we’re exposed to, by what we eat, by how we as possible. So take common sense measures to
sleep, by the nutrition that we receive from the avoid them. But if you want to measure them,
food that we’re eating. you can actually measure food additives and
foot preservatives and food dyes and whether
So if you really want to be accurate at assessing a person is reacting to certain things that might
whether or not a person has the potential for be in their cosmetics or their shampoos or their
creating a greater degree of inflammation than soaps or their detergents because, again, a lot
they are a greater degree of repair, you’ve got of these products can be natural. But if you’re
to check your nutritional status. So measuring reacting to them, then it could be a source of
vitamins, measuring minerals, measuring plasma creating inflammation.
amino acids.
So not just measuring the outcome, which is the
These things are very, very important because if a inflammation, because then you have a question
person, for example, has a deficiency in omega-3 mark. I’m not a fan of saying, “Hey, you’re
fatty acids, omega-3 fatty acids are one of the inflamed,” but not having the answer as to why
primary regulators of the normal inflammatory you’re inflamed because having a positive CRP
response. And when they’re low, a person makes test which shows inflammation doesn’t tell you
more inflammation than what they need to do why the inflammation is there.
the same work. And so again, they become repair
deficit in a sense. So instead of stopping at, “You have

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 23

inflammation,” let’s instead say, “You have So when you have an over aggressive immune
inflammation, and these are the reasons why.” So system, like in the cause of autoimmune
if we can measure chemicals, if we can measure disease, that can actually be caused by vitamin D
food, if we can rule out infection and we can deficiency which can be overcome. And it’s free.
rule out vitamin and mineral deficiency, then for It can be overcome by just taking and making an
most people, those are the big causes for why effort to get out in the sun on a consistent basis.
the inflammation might be there. So I highly
recommend looking into those things as well. Again, the rule there is use common sense. Don’t
go out and burn. Go out long enough that you can
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, totally agree. Want to get to the tolerate it without burning. But get it on a regular,
root cause and solve it from there, not just see daily basis. And know that any sunscreen greater
if there’s inflammation. But clearly, that’s a huge than SPF 8 is going to inhibit your skin’s capacity
topic in today’s society, just getting to the root to produce vitamin D. So it’s very, very important
cause of chronic inflammation. And so what sort that if you are trying to get that sun that you’re
of lifestyle strategies can people start to apply to not just lathering up immediately before going
reduce inflammation in their body? out. So sunshine and sleep are both free.

Dr. Osborne: There are a lot of strategies. And Eat real food. Now, some people can be allergic to
these strategies are generic. But for most people, real food. And that’s okay, too. But it’s a great first
they’re going to work. And one of the strategies step that doesn’t cost you anything. It’s just not
is certainly making sure you sleep adequately. eating processed, packaged foods and sugars, not
Inadequate sleep is one of the biggest triggers for eating the hydrogenated fats.
aggressive stress hormone release that causes
a cortisol elevation that can make blood sugar These are just very basic, very, very simple things
problems worse. And it can cause and trigger an that if you abide by the rule of eating real food,
inflammatory response. So lack of sleep is a big getting plenty of sleep, making sure you get
one. adequate sunshine and drink plenty of water,
you’re going to go a long way to helping normalize
And sleep is free. All you have to do is set up a an inflammatory response in the body. And again,
habit around going to sleep at the right times, those things don’t cost you anything.
even if you consider yourself to be a night owl.
Humans need sleep between 10 pm and 2 am and Now, if you want to talk about things that can be
preferably longer on either side of that 10 to 2 more dialed in, we can get into that. But I wanted
block. But it’s a very, very important timeframe to to give the audience some things that they could
make sure that you’re sleeping. take home right now today and start applying.

Regular sunshine because it helps you produce Dr. Jockers: Yeah, I think that’s beautiful, just
melatonin. Melatonin is an anti-inflammatory. the low hanging fruit. Really optimize your sleep.
A lot of people don’t realize that. It helps with I’ve heard that for every hour of sleep you get
sleep. But it’s also an anti-inflammatory. Sunshine before midnight, it’s equivalent to three hours of
also allows you to get vitamin D in a natural way. regenerative sleep after midnight. You just get
And vitamin D is an anti-inflammatory. It helps such a greater boost in human growth hormone
regulate the immune system’s response. production. It’s just so good for your circadian
rhythm. So yeah, good sleep. Getting out on the

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 24

sun on a regular basis. grains. The way they’re stored and the way they’re
produced have a tendency to harbor mold and
I’d also add in just going out and grounding, mycotoxins. And many people are allergic to
getting your bare feet on grass, dirt, sand, maybe mold. And mycotoxins aren’t good for anyone.
hugging a tree or something like that. Just getting
out in that healthy electromagnetic frequency A lot of your grains if you’re overconsuming
from the earth can be so healthy and healing and them—most people are. Food Guide Pyramid in
really doesn’t cost you anything which is one of this country is a solid base of grain. And when
the profound things we talk about with fasting. you overconsume grain, you’re overconsuming
And we’ll go into that in a second. omega-6. So eating too much food with high
levels of omega-6 fatty acids skews the balance of
Now, when it comes to an anti-inflammatory omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acid ratio and favors
nutrition plan, I know you specialize in that. toward the side of inflammation. So those are just
Obviously, it needs to be customized for some of the qualities about grain as a whole that
everybody. But what’s the base template you use can contribute to inflammation.
for that?
I won’t harp too much on grain because you can
Dr. Osborne: The biggest triggers that I’ve read No Grain, No Pain. And there are 300 medical
seen clinically over and over and over and over references in that book that can really guide you
again. Number one is chemicals in the food. in a much more specific arena.
So avoid food dyes, food preservatives, and
avoid processed foods, especially those that But dairy is another big one. Dairy, we’re
are genetically modified or that have pesticides, bombarded from youth. Grain and cereal. Pour
herbicides, and other residues in them. the milk on your cereal. And the problem with
the milk is the cows. It’s what the cows are being
Again, go back to real food is rule number one. fed. Cows are not designed to eat grains that are
But real, organic food. And it’s sad that we have to contaminated with pesticides and mycotoxins. It
say that, isn’t it? To say the food that you’re going doesn’t make a healthy cow.
to eat needs to be not contaminated. And then
it costs more to not contaminate your food. But So when you take an unhealthy cow and milk it,
that’s where we’re at in our world. So buying real, you don’t get a healthy milk product, especially
whole, organic food is step one. when you’re also adding things like recombinant
bovine growth hormone and you’re creating a
Now, there are certain categories of foods that miserable lifestyle for that animal. Just think about
we see that can create a lot of inflammation. And yourself. If we locked you away, away from your
one of them is the family of grains. And there family and away from your friends and isolated
are several reasons why. Some people think that you, you would not be a happy individual. And
the only reason why grains create a problem is those farm animals on those scale factory farms
because of the glyphosate. And the glyphosate are not healthy. And they’re not happy. And that’s
is certainly an issue. But it’s far deeper than just part of the reason why. You can’t extrapolate a
glyphosate. healthy food from an animal that’s in poor health.

We’ve got gluten. And many people are gluten And so dairy, aside from that, a lot of the way that
sensitive or gluten intolerant. But we’ve also got it’s processed, the microbial transglutaminase

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 25

from meat glues that are added to dairy as a although I agree with that to a large extent, it’s
thickening agent can actually make the dairy not always true. But we do start from the premise
protein look like gluten. So for people with gluten of what goes in the mouth is what your body can
sensitivity, we get this cross reactivity between take as a resource to use in the maintenance of
dairy. Even if it’s grass fed dairy, it can still be the frame.
processed with meat glue. And that can still create
this type of reaction. So for many people, dairy is So your body needs that fuel—the carbohydrate,
just out. It’s a big no-no. the fat, the protein, the vitamins, the minerals, the
other plant-based phytonutrients and chemicals.
Another one is the obvious. It’s sugar. Corn Your body uses those fuels to heal, to repair,
sugar, cane sugar, beet sugar. Those are the to maintain itself, to go about the normal daily
three primary forms of sugar made in the U.S. business.
I’d say today in the U.S. predominantly it’s corn.
Corn syrup or corn fructose, if you will, high And so what happens with many people is they’re
concentrated, high fructose corn syrup which is eating food from the sugar, the dairy, the grain.
very detrimental to the liver. And remember, the And those foods are very low in vitamins and
liver is a very important organ in how it helps us minerals. They’re very low in micronutrients. And
deal and cope with toxins and inflammation. So if so what they’re actually doing is they’re eating a
you’re eating a lot of processed sugar that’s tying food that’s high in calories, that’s low in nutrients.
the liver and its resources up, it really is going to And their body is not getting the nutrition that it
impact and affect the way that your body can take needs to deal with the day to day.
care of inflammation.
So slowly, what happens over time is the more
So dairy, grain, and sugar. Three big food groups that happens, the body loses its capacity for
for most people that I see that are struggling repair. So things start to slowly break down. And
with chronic autoimmune conditions. And we when things start to slowly break down, how do
can throw in or tag in there, too, the nightshades, we fix them? Well, we need vitamins and minerals
things like eggplant and tomatoes and potatoes. and nutrients to fix them. But if we’re not eating
Many people react to this. And not all people, but the foods that contain adequate quantities of
many people do. So it’s a category that generally those things, then that disrepair continues on.
speaking, for many people going nightshade-free
along with grain, dairy, and sugar-free is very, And one of the other fundamental mistakes
very helpful at mitigating chronic inflammatory people make is they overconsume. So not only are
processes. they eating poor-nutrient-dense foods. But they’re
eating too many of them. They’re eating too many
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, it’s a pretty good overview, Dr. calories as a whole.
Peter. And so let’s talk about fasting. How does
fasting help to heal leaky gut? Maybe you could And when we look at dairy and we look at grain,
talk a little bit about leaky gut and how fasting which are the two predominant staple foods in
can help to reduce stress on the gut and reduce the United States’ diet, both of these, even if you
chronic inflammation overall. took them in their healthiest versions, are still
relatively hard for the human digestive tract to
Dr. Osborne: A lot of doctors will make the claim process. There are proteins in grains like amylase
that all disease ends and begins in the gut. And trypsin inhibitors. There are proteins like gluten

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 26

and lectins that are hard to digest. So if we’re setting the stage for chronic
autoimmune disease, that’s most people’s
And when 70, 80% of your calories are coming scenario. They overeat. They overeat foods that
from food that’s a burden on the gut, that puts are highly caloric but low in nutritional value and
a huge burden on the gut. And that food is not hard to digest. And so they create a complete
providing vitamins and minerals which would disruption of their gut lining and their gut’s
actually help the gut deal with that burden. Then purpose. And now, they have basically bacterial
what happens is you create a scenario in the GI poop, viral poop, yeast poop, and food poop,
tract where it’s in overwhelm. Too many calories. debris leaking into their bloodstream. And now,
Not enough nutrients. Too many foods that are their liver becomes overwhelmed. And then their
hard to digest. And now we have this overwhelm skin becomes overwhelmed. And it’s just a big
situation. mess.

Let me give you an analogy. Imagine you go home Dr. Jockers: Yeah, it’s a vicious cycle, absolutely.
from work every day. And you cook your food.
And you prepare everything. And you eat. But Dr. Osborne: So where fasting comes in is
you never do your dishes. So the dishes just keep you’re letting the gut take a vacation. So another
mounding up in the sink. And eventually, they analogy. If you go to work and your boss says,
start spilling out of the sink. And before you know “Thanks for working your eight hours today. But I
it, you’ve got critters running around, eating the need you to stay another four hours.”
debris of the food because you’re not taking care
of it. And you’ve got a huge mess in your house all And you’re like, “I’m tired.” But you stay anyway.
because you just didn’t do the dishes.
And then at 12 hours, your boss comes up and
That’s what happens in the gut. When you says, “You know what? I’m going to need you to
put too much in and you don’t have normal pull a 24-hour shift.”
housekeeping, then the gut becomes so
overwhelmed that it breaks down. And now it And you’re like, “Well, okay. I’ve got to feed my
can’t process anything. And you hear the term family.” So you stay that 24 hour shift.
“leaky gut.” That’s basically what happens. The
gut is overwhelmed. And those seals in the gut And then your boss comes back at you and says,
lining start to break open. And now all that junk, “You know what? We’re just going to need to keep
all that debris, all that stuff that’s not good for you you on for the next two days.”
has access to your bloodstream and to your liver
immediately. And every time you think you’re going to get a
break, you don’t get a break. And so eventually
And remember that your gut is supposed to be a what happens is your energy, your mental
quarantined tube. From your mouth to your anus, prowess, all of that just fundamentally breaks
your gut is a quarantine zone. And its job is to down. And then you can’t function.
separate good from bad, poop out the bad, keep
the good, not to hold onto everything because it’s And that’s what happens to the gut. It’s just been
overwhelmed and then spring a bunch of leaks worked too long. So when we fast, we allow the
and allow all the bad and the good in. And that’s gut to go home and get a good night’s sleep and
where that chronic inflammation comes from. repair itself and excrete and expel the waste so

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 27

that it can take on the job of the next day. And when you’re inflamed you gain weight.
Obesity is not healthy. I don’t care who you are,
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, I love that analogy. I always how comfortable you are in your own skin. If you
say it’s kind of like if you’re trying to heal from are overweight and obese, it is an inflammatory
a broken ankle and you’re walking on it all day, disease that is going to slowly dwindle away at
you’re not going to heal. You’ve got to get the your health. So if you have chronic elevations in
crutches. You’ve got to lay it up. You’ve got to get insulin because you’re overconsuming calories,
rest. And that’s really what fasting does, helps to which is what happens to a lot of people,
just reset and then enhance the healing process. understand that insulin as a hormone causes
visceral weight storage. It stores fat around your
Now, how can fasting help to reduce inflammation heart and around your intestines.
throughout the body too?
One of the benefits of fasting is it reduces
Dr. Osborne: Well, again, going back to the source insulin and allows your body to tap into those
of where the inflammation is coming from. If that inflammatory fats and burn them off as energy so
source of inflammation is from a leaky gut, you’re that they’re no longer increasing the inflammation
taking away what’s leaking into the bloodstream. around your heart and in your intestinal area. So
So if what’s leaking into the bloodstream is one of the effects on fasting is that it will reduce
creating the inflammation, when you’re fasting, it’s your insulin level.
a stop gap. You’re stopping things from coming
and leaking through. Another hormonal effect of fasting is that it can
actually elevate your mood. It can elevate your
If that inflammation is coming from food, then dopamine levels in your brain and in your gut
you’re stopping the intake of that food. And because, remember, 60% of your dopamine is
therefore, you’re not creating those antigen/ made in your gut. So fasting elevates dopamine
antibody responses. You’re not creating those which can enhance your mood.
inflammatory chemicals, if the immune system
perceives that food to be an enemy, that it would And when we have an improved mood, we have
create. a greater capacity for energy, a greater capacity
for exercise, a greater capacity to make healthier
So fasting stops any kind of food-induced decisions because if your mood is depressed, you
inflammation. It stops any kind of leaky gut tend to make bad decisions. You don’t exercise.
penetration. And that’s where it can be the most You don’t want to go outside. You don’t want to
effective in terms of why it causes a reduction in talk to other people and be social. You isolate
inflammatory. yourself. And that’s a very unhealthy thing to do.
So fasting can elevate your mood and change
Now, that’s just the physical component of your choices as a result of that mood elevation.
it. There’s also a biochemical or more nerdy
component which the effect that fasting has on a Fasting can also help to restore neural synapses.
number of our hormones. So when we fast one So we have neural synapses in the brain. We have
of the things that happens is actually our insulin neural synapses in the heart. We have neural
levels start to drop. And so many people are synapses in our gut. Our gut is what we refer to
inflamed. as the second brain. It has more neurons than
the entire spinal cord. And so there are a couple

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 28

different hormones that are released when you other tests like C-peptide. One of my favorite
fast that allow these neurons to communicate tests is an intracellular glucose-insulin interaction
more efficiently and more effectively. test that tells us about how well your insulin and
your sugar are communicating together. And
And so again, without fasting and then there are other types of things that you
overconsumption of calories, you can bog those can do like nutrients that are involved in blood
neurons down. They don’t do as well. And that’s sugar regulation. Like chromium and zinc and B
why people get sluggish and constipated in vitamins are important for this.
their guts. And that’s why they get sluggish and
constipated in their mind. They can’t think clearly. So if all that’s dialed in and you’ve got pretty good
They develop brain fog. blood sugar regulation, then fasting is a great
tool. And I start people on a 16:8, a 16-hour fast
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, really good stuff. Really good with eight hours of eating. And this is not a caloric
stuff. And so what are some fasting regimens restriction diet. It is just simply a time restriction
you’ve had success using with your clients? where we’re limiting the time that you eat your
meals within an eight-hour frame. So generally
Dr. Osborne: Always start with what the client can what that means is a very early dinner and a
tolerate. So especially women, because women brunch instead of a breakfast.
can be more prone to having trouble fasting.
And it doesn’t mean that women can’t fast. It So think of it as if you eat dinner at 6 pm,
just simply means you want to be careful. Some somewhere in that neighborhood and then you
women don’t do well with fasting at all at first. And wake up at 6 am in the morning, you’ve already
it’s because of blood sugar dysregulation. fasted for 12 hours. So you really only have
another four hours to wait until that first meal. So
If you’re fasting, one of the hormonal responses that would come sometime around 10 o’clock if
is that your cortisol goes up when you’re fasting. you’re eating a really early dinner. So that’s a 16:8
Cortisol is a hormone that’s secreted by your strategy.
adrenal glands. And it tells your liver to dump
sugar into your bloodstream. It’s because you’re I always start people there because I want to see
not eating. So there’s no blood sugar. So your how well they tolerate fasting. And if they do well
blood sugar drops. And that cortisol comes out to with that a couple of days, if we really want to try
tell your liver to put sugar in your bloodstream. to expedite the healing process, we can go into a
24-hour fast. And if we really want to expedite the
And some people who are under tremendous healing process, where the real magic happens is
stress that already have adrenal fatigue don’t do in five days.
well when they fast. It actually causes an hyper,
or an exaggerated cortisol response which causes Three-day fasts can be pretty good because there
weight gain and bloating. And it can cause more are a number of different things that happen
fatigue and more brain fog. when you fast 36 hours. There are a number of
different things that happen even more greatly
So the first step is if your blood sugar is good when you fast 72 hours. And then when you
and if it’s very well managed—so you can have get into the five-day parameter, what we see if
your doctor run tests like hemoglobin A1c and massive, what’s called autophagy which is your
fasting insulin and blood sugar levels. There are cell debris, your broken cells, your old cells are

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 29

rapidly being removed and being replaced. You lot. Plan to get out in the sun like you were talking
can actually see in a good five-day fast a complete about. Try to rest and sleep a lot. You don’t want a
replenishment of the immune cells. lot of stress when you’re trying to do that because
it’s new. It’s something new your body has to
And that’s very important with autoimmune adapt to. So it’s a stressor of its own that your
disease because if you’ve got all these circulating body has to adapt to.
immune cells that are hyperactive and hyper
responsive, we want to clear those out of the I’m actually in the middle of doing my fourth five-
circulation. day fast. At this point, it’s no problem. It’s been
fairly easy for me. The first time I did it, it was a
But again, the problem with many people who are little bit of a shock on my body. And so just like
chronically ill is they can’t yet tolerate a five-day exercise, you’ve got to get used to it. And you’ve
fast. So start with a 16:8. Before you do that, make got to work your way up. So I love your strategy
sure that your blood sugar is being well regulated there, starting with that 16:8 and just seeing how
through a fast and has the potential to survive you tolerate that first and then going from there.
that fast without just creating more of a hormone
imbalance and problem with you. So just taking incremental steps I think is super,
super important. And certainly, especially if you
And if you tolerate 16:8, try a 24. And if you have a major health condition, working with a
tolerate a 24, you can 48 or three days. And then healthcare provider on this is going to be very
expand that out if you would like to. Again, it’s a important as well.
voluntary thing because not everybody is capable
of wrapping their mind around wanting to go five And so, Dr. Peter, this has been an incredible
days without food. But it can be very liberating. interview. You’ve given us so much great
information on inflammation, nutrition, nutritional
But it also, in my opinion, should be monitored strategies for inflammation, leaky gut, and really
and should be done strategically because if you diving deep on fasting there. And so what are
go too long and you’re trying to do too much, you some final words of inspiration that you want
can get yourself in trouble. So again, if you want to leave with our listeners? And also, where can
the ultimate fast, five days is where the actual people find out more about you?
magic happens in terms of resetting the immune
system in autoimmune disease. Dr. Osborne: A couple of things. Number one,
I wanted to address, just quickly, some people
But if you’re going to attempt that, do it under who are underweight because that’s one of those
medical supervision. And make sure that your areas where they can lose more weight if they try
blood sugar levels are where they need to be and some of these extended fasts. There’s a strategy
that you’re capable of maintaining normal blood where you can use amino acids during your fast.
sugar without a hyper cortisol excretion.
And I would highly recommend that any of
Dr. Jockers: Yeah, super important. Really great you who are worried about weight loss or
suggestions there. And I’d also say if you’re going underweight use essential amino acids as a
to do a longer fast, at least for the first time or supplemental during the fast. It will help raise
two you’re going to do that, don’t plan anything your blood sugar a little bit. But it will allow you
stressful during those days either. Plan to rest a to give your gut a break. But it will also supply the

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 30

building blocks for healing and repair. on all the elements of how to go gluten free
properly, the pearls and the pitfalls of the gluten-
So beyond that, seven strategies that I always free diet, etc. So you can find more information
recommend. We talked about a few of them. about us there.
Sunshine is free. Sleep is free. Exercise is free.
Clean air is free. Water is free. Well, you kind of And if you’re interested more about our
pay for water if you have a water bill. And eat real clinic outreach and becoming a client and
food, which we talked about. coming on and seeing us, you can visit me at
DrPeterOsborne.com. And there’s a big tab there
And then the last strategy is you’ve got to be that says “Origins Healthcare.” That’s our clinic.
spiritually sound. And whether you’re Christian If you just click on that tab, you can learn more
or whether you’re not, you’ve got to be around about what we’re doing here.
people who love you, who care about you. You’ve
got to have supportive emotional relationships Dr. Jockers: Well, thanks so much again,
around you to get through and break through Dr. Osborne. You are certainly an expert in
chronic illness. inflammation. And I just really appreciate you
being a part of this summit and just everything
So those seven strategies are what I would leave that you’re doing for the functional medicine
the audience with. And if you are ever struggling community and the natural healing world and
in your health, just ask yourself, “Am I doing those getting this message out. So thanks again for
seven things on a consistently, daily basis? Or is being a part of this.
there somewhere that I can improve?”
And for all the listeners, I’m going to leave you
And if you want to learn more about what we with this last thought. Fasting truly can unlock the
do, the No Grain, No Pain message, you can visit dormant healing potential within you. It’s safe. It’s
GlutenFreeSociety.org. We have an excellent powerful. And it just might transform your life.
gluten-free survival kit, free to you. You just go We’ll see you on a future interview. Be blessed.
there, sign up for our newsletter. We’ll send that
free survival kit to you where you can dive deep

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 31

Creating a Fasting
Lifestyle for Hormone
Optimization
Daniel Pompa, PScD

Dr. David Jockers: Welcome, everybody, to the However, to get some serious benefit from the
Fasting Transformation Summit, where we are levels of ketones we need, it would be impossible
uncovering the most powerful, ancient, and to do without fasting. So, just in review. You make
inexpensive healing strategy known to mankind: ketones by breaking fat down. So if we get our
fasting. I’m your host, Dr. David Jockers. I’m really carbohydrates low enough, we can actually force
excited about really a world leader in cellular the cells to use fat as energy. And when it burns
healing, a great mentor to me, and a pioneer in fat, it makes these things called ketones that your
really getting fasting strategies out as a primary brain can use. Because your brain can’t actually
healing tool to doctors all around the world. This use fat like the rest of your cells in your body. It
is Dr. Dan Pompa, from DrPompa.com, from needs to use either glucose or these things called
Cellular Healing TV. And we go way back. He was ketones.
also on our Keto Edge Summit.
So when we get our glucose, our carbohydrates
We’re going to dive into really this idea of fasting way down, then the body will make these ketones
and ketosis today. So Dr. Dan, welcome to the as a byproduct of breaking fat down. So the body
Fasting Transformation Summit. cells are using fat, our brains love ketones. And
ketones, in review, have a lot of benefits.
Dr. Dan Pompa: Yeah, thanks for having me. I
love this topic. Can’t wait. Number one, they burn extremely clean. They
lower inflammation of the cell. Huge. They can
Dr. David Jockers: Absolutely. So, let’s get started turn off bad genes that get turned on. They can
with ketosis. I know you were on our Keto Edge have a really healing effect on our gut and the
Summit, so let’s get started with ketosis and fat microbiome. So, there’s a lot of benefits.
adaptation. And then we’ll branch from there into
fasting and how all this plays together. They help heal the brain. One of the ways, the
first things we notice when we bring someone
Dr. Dan Pompa: Yeah. I’m hoping everyone saw into ketosis. And it takes maybe two to four weeks
the Keto Summit, so we can kind of talk like they to get fat-adapted or make these ketones. One
know what ketosis is, and how beneficial ketones of the first thing we notice is the brain just clicks
are. But when you look at ketosis, which I’m a on. All of a sudden, it’s really easy to remember
believer in ketosis. It’s a tool that I use all the time. where your keys are.
The doctors that I work with and teach, we all use
it. Literally, for myself, I notice when I transition

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 32

because I can start remembering where then it doesn’t say, ok, I’m going to hold onto this
everything was on a page that I read. So, we precious fuel source, the fat.
become fat adapted and we make these ketones.
And that’s just a little review. When we fast, we Because all the body wants to do is survive. So
make much higher levels of ketones. And that’s if fat is its number one fuel, it wants to be very
one of the huge benefits of fasting. efficient because it wants to survive. We don’t
want it being efficient. So the moment you have a
Dr. David Jockers: Absolutely. I know you have a feast day, as I like to call them, then the body says,
strategy, just kind of a daily strategy. Or I should ok, we’re fine now. We can go back to burning fat.
say weekly strategy, the 5-1-1. Which I’ve adopted,
and I use with a lot of my clients, as well. Can you So people will come out of ketosis for a day,
explain that to the listeners? basically after a few days. I’ll get an email saying,
oh my gosh, my ketones our out, my glucose is up.
Dr. Dan Pompa: It’s part of what I teach, My ketones are down. I don’t like that. I say, hang
something called diet variation. Feast-famine in there. Because what happens the following day
cycles. One thing we’ve learned, I work with so is your body then becomes more efficient at using
many doctors training them, so clinically we can fat again. And you become leaner.
take in a lot of information and all come together
as a group of doctors and say, this is working. This But more importantly for us, we don’t want the
isn’t. What are you finding? body in that survival mechanism. So we just
One of the things we know just by being on low- basically biohack it with that.
carbohydrate diets for a long time is eventually,
the body starts to slow down fat metabolism. It Now, you said 5-1-1. So, we have 5 days of
does that because it wants to survive. If you force ketosis, we’ll say. Then we have one day that I just
the carbohydrates down in a state of ketosis, what mentioned, the feast day. Now we throw another
can happen is, your body says, ok, my number day in to fast. We either don’t eat at all that day,
one fuel is fat. So I want to be efficient with it. or maybe we eat one meal. So you maybe 23-hour
Therefore, it slows the fat burning down. fast. Either way, you’re creating something called
autophagy, which we’ll talk more about.
So then what can happen is your body can start
utilizing some of the muscle. So people then tend But simply put, the body in a fasting state. Even
to start losing muscle, and gaining a little fat. And 23 hours. Will reach for its bad tissues first. It will
unfortunately, the fat that you start holding onto reach for the bad cells. The bad DNA. The bad
is where you don’t want it. It would occur right in protein. The rubbish. The things it wants to get rid
the front of my belly. Exactly where I don’t want it, of. The trash. The cellular rubbish. It’s that smart
that’s where it occurs. Ladies say, it’s on my thighs, that it doesn’t want to break down good tissue.
what’s going on? I’m eating 10 grams of carbs a That’s called autophagy.
day. What’s happening?
2016 Nobel Prize was won by a gentleman who
Well, one of the things, and body builders knew basically researched the topic of autophagy and
this for years. One of the things that you do is how good it is for our health. So by adding that
you add in just one day of basically a feast. Where fasting day in, number one, we’re producing really
we remind the body it’s not starving. Simple as therapeutic levels of ketones. You could never
that. We remind the body there’s plenty, and product just by being in ketosis.

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 33

Number two, we’re downregulating inflammation, But mostly, if I do one where I don’t eat at all, it’s
because we’re becoming more hormone sensitive just one day. But typically two or three where I’ll
at the cellular level. And number three, we’re just eat one meal. But, I always, always, always
getting more autophagy. So one day a week of have one or two feast days. And that’s the feast-
fasting. One day of week of feasting. They don’t famine. And by the way, there’s even beyond what
have to be back to back. It can be random as you we just said reasons why this works so well.
desire them to be. And 5 days of a ketosis diet. So When you do a feast-famine cycle, you’re making
that’s the 5-1-1. the body adapt to large amounts, small amounts.
Fasting state, feast state. That adaptation, just like
Dr. David Jockers: So that’s the diet variation exercise. When the body adapts, I call hormone
principle there, with the 5-1-1. And I find that to optimization. The body optimizes its sensitivity
be just really sustainable. Most people can say, ok. to your hormones. Which means you’re hearing
Because obviously fasting is a sacrifice. So most testosterone more. You’re hearing estrogen
people are like, ok, I can do the one day fast if I better. Your cells are hearing it better. So it’s not
can have that feast day. So it becomes much more about how much hormone you have, it’s about
of a sustainable lifestyle, so the compliancy really how well the cells hear them. And that is really a
goes up. state of health.

Dr. Dan Pompa: People look at it as a cheat day, So forcing adaptation is like exercise. If you do
but really, no. This is a beneficial day. Now, look. I the same exercise in the gym day in, day out. The
would recommend, could you throw in, the pizza, body gets used to it, and you don’t get results.
the ice cream. Yeah, you could. I would argue, if But when you change it up, now the body has
you’re healthy, go ahead. But if you’re challenged, to adapt, and the adaptation raises up growth
I would say don’t do that. Eat healthy carbs. hormone. You become more hormone sensitive
at the cell. And you get results. No different with
To make it a feast day you could have a few diet than it is with exercise.
things. Elevated calories would throw you
into basically the body saying, ok, we have And another great example, it’s kind of in vogue
plenty. Elevated protein can work instead of right now, right, the hot-cold thing. So people go
carbohydrates. If you say, I just don’t do well in really cold pools, they’ll go in the hot then the
with carbohydrates for other reasons, great. Do cold. And we know that it stimulates weight loss. It
protein. It works too. Or, elevated carbs. Your breaks through weight loss resistance. Why does
choice. Just remind the body it’s not starving, and it work? Because when you put yourself in a cold
the magic happens. pool of water, or a cryochamber and drop the
temperature down to 150 below zero for three
And then, we can take it a step further. 4-2-1. minutes, your body literally thinks it’s going to die.
Once people get more efficient at this, we add And then you step out, and it doesn’t.
two fasting days in a week. Random. I typically
do 2 or 3, and I really never know the day. So my What happens is, it adapts. It raises up growth
time, right now, in this interview it’s almost 2:30. hormone dramatically. It makes your cells
I haven’t eaten yet. So I may or may not even eat very sensitive to the hormones. And, it raises
tonight, honestly. Because I do, like I said, two or up another hormone called norepinephrine.
three fast days a week. And what that does is it has a massive anti-
inflammatory effect for hours after the hot and

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 34

cold chamber. water fast. That’s the autophagy. Now, what

happens on the backside of autophagy is stem cell
So all we’re doing with the diet, feast/famine proliferation. So now your body raises up it’s stem
is doing the exact same thing as exercise. The cells to replace the tissue, the bad old cells and
exact same thing as hot and cold. It works to bad DNA that it ate. One of which is bad protein in
break through weight loss resistance. It works for our muscle.
hormone conditions. It works for gaining muscle,
losing fat. Whatever you desire. It works. So, the body will literally eat the bad protein.
Because people say, well, you lose some muscle
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, absolutely. I’m with you while you’re fasting. You lose muscle, but it’s
on that. It’s kind of these microdoses of stress, only bad muscle that’s not recovering anyway.
this hormesis principle, just make us stronger So then, it raises the stem cells up. And it takes a
because our body is forced to adapt. Like you month or so. But then all of a sudden, you gain
were saying. And I’ve noticed that for myself. new muscle. And this muscle is recovering. And if
About 6 months ago, I started doing two fast days. you know anything about exercise, everything is
Where I would do one meal a day, basically, 24- about recovery. And all of a sudden, she got more
hour fasts. One feast day. And I’ve always been muscular. She got more fit. She was able to lose
underweight. And actually, I’ve noticed that I’ve basically more body fat.
actually gained 3 pounds of muscle doing that.
The point is that the autophagy, with the
And you would think, I’m eating less. Or at least elevated stem cells. You get new muscle that
less meals. I’m eating 12 recovers faster, and that’s not just muscle. That’s
meals, basically, a week. Yet I’ve been able to happening to your internal organs, as well. So the
actually gain muscle mass doing that. autophagy stem cells is the magic of an extended
fast.
Dr. Dan Pompa: My wife, they see her on
Facebook. I’m sure you’ve seen her. And they’re Dr. David Jockers: Absolutely. A lot of people are
like, oh my gosh, your arms! She looks like she concerned they’re going to lose too much weight,
lifts all the time. She really doesn’t. But with each too much muscle. But basically that human
extended fast, and by the way, she does this feast/ growth hormone sends that signal to preserve
famine cycling. She probably does 3 fasts a week, lean body tissue. So that’s elevated because
I would say, eating one meal. And she feasts at it wants to maintain that. So think, from an
least two days a week. ancestral perspective, if food wasn’t around, we
needed to have greater vigor. Greater strength.
But, she also does periodic longer fasts. Extended Greater resiliency so we could go out and hunt. So
fast. And with each extended fast, at least 5 days. we could go out and find food. So absolutely.
And she’s just doing pure water fasting. About a
month later, she gains more muscle. Why is this Dr. Dan Pompa: Yeah. When you understand, it
happening? really is just forcing adaptation. Our DNA is set
up for it. We’re mimicking what our ancestors
I mentioned autophagy. Where your body, in were forced to do. We’re mimicking times of feast.
a fast. Especially an extended fast. It starts to We’re mimicking times of fasting. When they had
eat all of the bad tissue. And that’s one of the it, they ate it. They didn’t count calories. They
magic things that happens during an extended didn’t count carbs. When they had it, they ate it.

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 35

But when they didn’t, environmental stressors, happen? The would could have been gaping. And
droughts, whatever it was. They were fasting. yet it will form new skin. Stem cells do that.
They were forced into fasting states.
Here’s the problem. The older we get, the less
What happens, there are, I like to say 7 benefits. viable stem cells we have. But it didn’t form
Especially from extended fasting. Number one is eyeballs right here, it formed skin cells. The innate
we do get the autophagy. We’re eating the bad intelligence knows to form the right stem cells.
stuff in our bodies. Number two is the stem cells
that raise up and heal things. When you’re going So by periodically doing fasting, we’re breaking
through an extended fast, it’s pretty neat. Because down the bad and we’re upregulating viable,
every fast that I do, and I fast at least two or three young stem cells that our body produces. People
times a year. pay a lot of money to do stem cells. Your body
produces them for free during a fasting state. So
I have something like, oh, it hurts right here. And anyways. That’s the third reason. The autophagy,
then I remember, I injured that years ago. It’s like, the stem cells, the energy diversion. Also what
what’s happening is the body is literally retracing. happens is you reset DNA. Literally. You turn off
Going back. And stem cells are really healing that bad genes, and you turn on longevity genes, and
area because of the fast. So the body goes and anti-inflammatory genes. That’s huge.
retraces through the healing.
Another thing is you reset your microbiome. It
Something else I like to call energy diversion gives you a chance to fix your gut. You’re not
happens. Meaning, if you realized how much putting food in it. The microbiome, literally, that’s
energy it takes to digest and assimilate food, your good and bad bacteria. It resets. So it’s very,
it’s massive amounts of energy. Your innate very important as far as if you really want to fix
intelligence, when every meal you eat. Every time your gut. Fasting, I believe, is the most powerful
you eat food has to take that energy and say, tool that we have.
we’re going to do this at the digestive level. The
intestinal level. The cellular level. It’s massive. And of course, I mentioned the hormone
optimization that occurs. You do get the growth
So when you take that away, the energy is hormone rise, as you mentioned. You also get,
now diverted towards healing. I’m telling you, your cells get very sensitive to the hormones you
the innate intelligence. We’re chiropractors, have.
right? Chiropractic adjustment releases that
innate intelligence. A fast harnesses the innate So all of these things are really part of. And you
intelligence, takes the energy that it would get the elevated ketones. I would say that’s the
normally be using for digestion and assimilation, seventh one. You get these super elevated levels
and it is able to utilize that and focus on healing. of ketones that we know heal the body. So 7
And it has the stem cells to do it. That’s the cool reasons why you should fast right there.
thing.
Dr. David Jockers: I get so excited when you start
Folks, stem cells, I may have spoke out of turn going through that, just how powerful the body
that y’all know what stem cells are. But if I cut my is. Again, like I’ve been saying throughout this
hand, the reason the skin comes back together summit, it’s really the most powerful, inexpensive,
and makes new skin. You think, how does that it’s ancient, obviously. Our ancestors have done it.

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 36

Really, all of mankind has done fasting. It’s part of going to help you. I don’t mean take electrolytes
our genetic blueprint. So it’s powerful. that you would buy in the store with sugar in
them.
As far as doing an extended fast, what do you
recommend as far as the length. And when do we Sea salt actually helps you maintain potassium.
really hit the autophagy. Obviously, even during But some people need a little extra magnesium.
intermittent fasting we’re getting some autophagy If you’re cramping, getting muscle cramps. Take
taking place. When does it really ramp up, and some extra magnesium. Sea salt is a big, salt
same with the stem cells? water. It tastes like soup when you’re fasting.
It’s a big benefit. I think that’s going to benefit
Dr. Dan Pompa: Yeah, that’s a great question. everyone.
It takes about three days for most people to fat
adapt. And if you do this stuff more frequently, I Here are the questions I typically get: Dave, can
can be in that state in a day. But it takes time to I take my supplements? I tell people, try not to.
get there. The average person, it’s about three I don’t like to push the body left or right. I like
days when you start fat adapting. to rely completely on the innate intelligence.
Electrolytes, that’s different. It’s not pushing the
So I always say the minimum, if you’re going to body one way or another. But herbal products
do an extended fast, is four days. Because the can.
first three, you’re not even hitting the big benefits
yet. But by day 4, the autophagy. Because now There’s a product called bind that stays in the gut
you’re burning mostly fat as energy. Number one, that can minimize some of the detox symptoms
your hunger disappears. So it’s a lot easier day that people get. I would say that’s ok. There’s
4, so hang in there. Now you’re experiencing the another one, it’s molecular hydrogen that you’re
highest levels of autophagy. And if you can go familiar with. It downregulates a lot of the hydroxy
one more day, 5 days. You get a very high level free radicals. It’s a redox, it doesn’t push left or
of autophagy occurring. And the highest levels of right. That can help some people. But all in all, as
stem cells start occurring, there’s a peak that hits simple as water.
around that day 5.
And we can talk a little bit about partial fasting,
So, five-day fasts, four days a minimum I think is which I’m also a fan of. Which is a completely
a sweet spot. Can bigger people, heavier people, different type of fast. Right now, I’m talking
benefit from longer fasts? Absolutely. A big fan. specifically water fasting.
They can benefit longer term. But the average
person, I think if you think in terms of five days. Dr. David Jockers: Absolutely. So water
I think magic happens around that 5-day mark. fasting. How about dry fasting? I know you’ve
And, I’ll tell you. When you look at studies on experimented with that, as well. What are your
some of the hormonal shifts that take place, thoughts on that?
there’s another reason to do a 5-day water fast.
Dr. Dan Pompa: Many religious cultures do dry
And you asked another question, some of the fast. Typically for 24-hour periods. Which, if you’re
tricks. For the average person, I can just do a fast going to start that’s where I would start. I would
and I don’t have to worry about electrolytes and recommend doing some water fasting first before
minerals. But if you’re new to it, electrolytes are dry fasting. But the kind of cool thing about dry

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 37

fasting is your body needs water to survive. I’m here with him now. His body is brilliant and
Where does it get it? It’s going to get it from these he’s better how. And he does a lot of research
bad cells. for me. But he was that sensitive chemically that
literally, he was dying. So it wasn’t like he said, I’m
So you get about a 3-1 autophagy. Meaning going to dry fast. But yes, it saved his life.
you’re going to get three times more autophagy.
Therefore one day of dry fasting arguably could And I’ve seen that with water fasting, as well.
equal three days of water fasting. I don’t know if Where people are almost, the body know what
that works out, exactly. But if it is 3-1 autophagy it needs to do. But oftentimes just eliminating,
you could make the argument. again, that energy diversion. Taking the energy
and just driving it, driving the innate intelligence is
The bottom line is, you’re going to break down what saves people’s lives.
bad cells very quickly because your body needs
water to survive. My son did about 3.5 days dry Dr. David Jockers: Absolutely. So as somebody
fast. He did what is called a hard dry fast. And I gets started in fasting, what
didn’t tell him to do this, he just did it on his own are some cautions you typically give people? What
because he was reading about it and got excited. are some of the entry steps to do it, and things to
But anyway, a hard dry fast is now showering, look out for?
basically nothing. Because your body, it’s so
intelligent, if you shower it will literally suck the Dr. Dan Pompa: You have to, if you’re on
water right through your pores. Again, all in the medication, you have to work with your doctor.
name of survival. Because you’re going to need far less of whatever
medication. Because your cells are that attune.
But I had, ironically enough, I’m with him today. So if you’re taking insulin, my gosh, you’re
I’s’ a past client of mine who is very, very sick. going to need so much less or you’re going to
Who was forced to fast. He didn’t choose it. He be in trouble. Thyroid medication. Anything.
fasted 12 days on just air. Dry fasted. But it ended Antidepressants.
up being the thing that saved his life. He literally
couldn’t drink water. He couldn’t’ even handle the I had a gentleman, it was probably three seminars
IV. They were trying to give him things, his body ago. He was a patient of one of my doctors. He
was rejecting everything that they gave him. came to give testimony. He was on 120 days of
a pure water fast. Here’s the testimony. He was
He didn’t drink any water. 12 days. That was the on 8 different medications. He was working with
longest I’ve heard. But people have probably gone his doctors. A couple of psychotropic drugs. So
longer. many different medications that were most likely
some of the more needed, because he was that
Dr. David Jockers: That’s so amazing, that just, unhealthy.
we’re always trying to add something when
somebody is sick. So basically you just didn’t But as he went through the fast, every one
do anything, obviously no water, no food, no of his nutrition markers normalized. All his
supplements. Probably no medications here, as inflammatory markers were through the roof. He
well. 12 days. was in a state of death. He was obese, obviously.
And at this time, he was off of every one of his
Dr. Dan Pompa: Yeah, it saved his life. Ironically, medications. And all of his nutrition markers were

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 38

normal. 120 days on just water. with. I love the man. He talked about a lot of
the myths. I’m sure, ask him about the myths. I
Dr. David Jockers: Unbelievable. think he does a great job knocking it down. He’s
a nephrologist, University of Toronto. Why would
Dr. Dan Pompa: Yeah. But you should have seen this guy get involved in fasting, he doesn’t have
him. He lost slightly over 100 pounds. From what to. Because he got fed up with the failures of
I’ve heard, to this day, he’s still doing fantastic. medicine, and he realized fasting.

Dr. David Jockers: I believe it. I remember my I think it really happened, like you said. Some of
first year in practice, I had a guy with ulcerative his patients were coming back and going, yeah,
colitis. 10 years. Living in his mom’s basement. I fasted. And he’s like, holy cow your insulin and
Couldn’t work. Couldn’t go to school. Tried every glucose are unbelievable now.
diet plan. GAPS diet, low FODMAPS, all this stuff.
Wasn’t getting better. So he stumbled into it, like I think so many of us
do. But it’s unutilized. It’s a remarkable tool.
And then all of a sudden he was like, I’m just
going to fast. And at first, that was kind of my first Dr. David Jockers: It is. And I just want to really
experience with a long fast. I’m like, great, let’s do commend you for being one of the pioneers in
it. Let’s do a 7-10 day fast. By day 5, he was like, getting it out. Because you’ve been really on this,
this is the best I’ve ever felt. I can’t remember really like the last 10 years you’ve been talking
feeling this good. He ended up going 42 days a lot about fasting. Especially over the last few
fasting. years. Really have gotten the message out on
YouTube, on your podcast, really all over the
And then he got down to 119 pounds. He’s 5’11”, internet. You’re training doctors on it. You are an
119 pounds. So it looked like he came out of a inspiration to many.
concentration camp. But then he started eating,
started exercising, and three months later he was So, Dr. Pompa, what are some final words of
170 pounds of muscle. No ulcerative colitis. Had inspiration you can leave our listeners with?
his life back. So powerful.
Dr. Dan Pompa: I think that it’s what you said.
Dr. Dan Pompa: You know, honestly, the doctors It’s not necessarily adding something that’s going
that I coach echo the same. I don’t know that we to be your miracle. It’s taking things away. Even
could get the conditions that we see well without so much as taking all your food away. And giving
fasting. It is such an unutilized tool. Because there your body time to heal.
are so many myths about fasting. I’m going to lose
my muscle. I’m going to starve. You can go down And I said there’s something called partial fasting,
the list. which is great, too. Where you just diminish the
amount that you eat for five days a month. And
My next seminar, we have Dr. Jason Fung. I don’t the studies there, it’s just remarkable. But I think
know if you’ve interviewed him. we live in a society right now where we’re overfed.
Even on healthy foods. I watch people just
Dr. David Jockers: Yeah, we’re interviewing him. absolutely overeat.
And I’m not telling anyone to count calories
Dr. Dan Pompa: He’s a great guy we work closely because I don’t believe in that. I have a saying.

The Fasting Transformation Summit

 39

“If you want to live longer healthy, the key is not Dr. Dan Pompa: They can join it. If you go under
eating less. It’s eating less often.” And there lies announcements, there’s the videos. But it’s
the magic. When you look at ancient cultures, they fasting for a purpose. There are 12,000 people
don’t count calories. They don’t eat half their meal there sharing information. And again, go under
and push it away. No, they just eat less often. announcements for fasting for a purpose. Join
us, because there is power in numbers. You get
I’ve been to one of the last hunting-gathering so inspired by the stories and the healing and
tribes. And they ate one big meal a day, pretty questions. And I do a video every day during the
much. So when you look at studies on living fast. For a month up to it, I do one a week. So
longer, there’s only one thing that really holds check it out.
up. And it is eating less. But you have to do it by
eating less often. So there you have it. Dr. David Jockers: Really good stuff. And I think
that’s really what it’s all about, fasting for a
Dr. David Jockers: Love it, man. There he is, the purpose. We have a big enough purpose, we can
man, the myth, the legend. Dr. Pompa himself, withstand the sacrifice and really get the results
the fasting guru. So check him out, drpompa.com. on the back end.
Cellular Healing TV, great show. You can find it on
YouTube as well as his podcast there. He talks a So, for all the listeners out there, I just want to
lot about fasting he does guided fasts, as well. remind you that fasting has the ability to unlock
Which is really cool. You’ve got a group’ what’s the the dormant healing potential within you. It’s safe,
name of your group for fasting? it’s powerful, and it just might transform your life.
So try it out, and we’ll see you soon.

The Fasting Transformation Summit