Welcome to

Computational Aspects of Digital Fabrication

Instructors
Bernd Bickel, IST Austria
Michael Wimmer, TU Wien
Przem Musialski, TU Wien
3D Printing
 3D Printing – Why?

• Eliminates barriers associated with traditional

manufacturing techniques
– complexity is free
– perfect for one-off’s,
cheaper, faster
– empowers new designs
 Complexity for Free

Arabic Icosahedron 3D Printed Gown Cabin bracket for the Airbus A350 XWB made of Ti
(Carlo H. Séquin) (Materialise) (manufactured by Concept Laser GmbH)
 «Game Changer» 3D Printer

[Objet]

3D Printers
 «Game Changer» 3D Printer

Transparent

Standard Plastics

Rubber-like

Medical

3D Printers >50 available materials

 «Game Changer» 3D Printer

An old concept

• 1984: Charles Hull invents

stereolitography
• 1995: 500 systems sold
• 2014: 13’000 industrial systems,
140’000 desktop 3D printers

3D Printers
 3D Printing – Why now?
Democratizing 3D Printing

Desktop printers

Online services
 Democratizing 3D Printing

SLA1: hundreds of thousands of $ MakerBot Replicator 2, approx 2k

 Different Scales

[Qingdao Unique Products Develop Co Ltd] [nanoscribe]

m nm
Speed
[carbon3d.com]
World’s First 3D Electronics Printer
3D Printing – What is it good for?

Architectural; Other; 3,9%

Military; 6,6% 3,2%
Academic; Automotive;
8,2% 16,1%
Aerospace;
Medical; 14,8%
13,1%
Consumer Industrial
products; machines;
16,6% 17,5%
Applications: Dental and Medical Industries

Crowns, copings, bridges Custom Hearing Aids

Implants Prosthetics
Source: Envisiontec, on3dprinting.com
Applications: Architecture & Design

Source: aecbytes.com, Z Corp, object.com

 Applications: Automotive

Honeycomb 3D Printed Ventilation Prototype

Tires (High Temperature 3D Printing Material)
Source: www.uprint3dprinting.com, gizmodo.com
Applications: Automotive
 Applications: Aerospace

3D printed fuel injection nozzle for a jet engine Airbus wing brackets

Source: GE, 3dprintingindustry.com

 Applications: Jewelry

• Direct metal printing and casting patterns

Source: Shapeways, replicatorinc.com

Applications: Footwear

Source: 3dprintingindustry.com, .rapid3d.co.za

Applications: Consumer Home Products

Source: Shapeways
Applications: Toys & Gadgets

Source: Shapeways, singularityhub.com, MyRobotNation.com

Applications: Art

Source: Shapeways, Carlo Sequin, techdigest.tv

Applications: Education

Source: printcountry.com, designfax.net

Dress in Motion
Dress in Motion
 3D Printing – The Future…

who knows…
 About This Course

• Basics of 3D printing hardware and software

• Computation, 3D printing, interactive techniques
• Overview of latest research

Source: The Economist (Cover)

About This Course

Source: The Economist (Cover)

What are the challenges?
 Hardware Challenges

• Slow
– Printing even small objects usually takes hours
• Expensive
• Limited print volume
• Unreliable
 Software Challenges: Data Requirements

• Tera voxels / foot^3

Challenges: Modeling Materials
Currently one material per part
 Challenges: Modeling Materials

• Large material library

 Challenges: Modeling Materials

Base Materials

Acquistion Fabrication
Search & Output
Simulation

Target Object
 Challenges: Modeling Interfaces

• Traditional 3D modeling packages

– not developed with 3D printing workflow in mind
– not adequate for the general public
 Challenges: Modeling Interfaces

Main goal

Develop computational design tools that generate 3D

Printable content from high-level abstractions/task
descriptions
Examples
 Course Structure
Date Topic Location

Friday, March 04– 1:45- Overview 3D printing. Available materials, material IST Austria; Lab Building West, Big
3:00pm and 3:15-4:30pm modeling, current printer pipeline, shortcomings. Seminar Room, ground floor
Visiting IST machine shop.
Friday, March 18- 1:45- Geometry processing and geometry modelling in TU Wien; Favoritenstr. 9-11,
3:00pm and 3:15-4:30pm the context of 3D printing. meeting room (HA0509), 5th floor
Friday, April 15- 1:45- From 3D Scanning to a printable model. TU Wien; Favoritenstr. 9-11,
3:00pm and 3:15-4:30pm meeting room (HA0509), 5th floor
Friday, April 29- 1:45- Basics of appearance, appearance fabrication. TU Wien; Favoritenstr. 9-11,
3:00pm and 3:15-4:30pm meeting room (HA0509), 5th floor
Friday, May 13- 1:45- Basics of FEM. IST Austria; Lab Building West, Big
3:00pm and 3:15-4:30pm Seminar Room, ground floor
Friday, May 27- 1:45- Stability optimization and design of deformable IST Austria; Lab Building West, Big
3:00pm and 3:15-4:30pm materials. Seminar Room, ground floor
 Lecturers

• Bernd Bickel
– Institute of Science and Technology, Austria
– http://visualcomputing.ist.ac.at
• Michael Wimmer
– TU Wien
– https://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/
• Przem Musialski
– TU Wien
– https://users.cg.tuwien.ac.at/pm/
 Prerequisites

• No strict prerequisites
• Computer Graphics background desired
• All assignments require some programming
C++, Matlab, …
• Calculus, linear algebra
– solving equations, derivatives, integrals
– vectors, matrices, basis, systems of equations
 Grading Structure

• No exam
• Grading based on assignments
 Assignments

• Assignment 1: Design a 3D object; Extract the

isosurface from a three-dimensional discrete scalar
field, 3D print a model (Python)
• Assignment 2: TBD
• Assignment 3: From a physical model to a physical
replica; geometry processing
• Assignment 4: TBD
• Assignment 5: FEM simulation (Matlab)
 Assignments

• Turn in code and executable (if appropriate)

• Be ready to present your solution

• Collaboration policy
– Assignments should be done individually
 Communication

• https://courses.app.ist.ac.at/index.php?id=127
Includes the course material

• Teaching assistant
Ruslan Guseinov
[email protected]

• Lecturers
Bernd Bickel [email protected]
Michael Wimmer [email protected]
Przem Musialski [email protected]
Overview Today
 3D Printing Hardware and Materials

Fused deposition modeling Stereolithography

3D Printing Software Pipeline
Input Model

Orientation and Positioning

Support Structures

Slicing

Path Planning

Machine Instructions
3D Printing Basics

Hardware
3D Printing = Additive Manufacturing

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:3D_printing_on_replicator_2.webm
 3D Printing Process

• Slice 3D model into layers

 3D Printing Process

• Slice 3D model into layers

• Manufacture layers one by one (e.g., bottom-up)

Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org
 Subtractive Manufacturing

• Start with a block of

material
• Remove material to obtain
a given 3D shape

Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org
 Additive Manufacturing Technologies

• Fused deposition modeling (FDM)

• Stereolithography (SLA)
• DLP 3D printing
• Selective laser sintering (SLS)
• Direct metal laser sintering (DMLS)
• Plaster-based 3D printing (PP)
• Photopolymer Phase Change Inkjets
• Thermal Phase Change Inkjets
• Laminated object manufacturing (LOM)
Applications of 3D Printing
 Why Additive Manufacturing?

• Good for custom parts or short production runs

• Can build objects with complex geometry
• No (or little) waste material
3D Printing Hardware and Materials
 Additive Manufacturing Encompasses Many
Different Technologies
• Fused deposition modeling (FDM)
• Stereolithography (SLA)
• DLP 3D printing
• Selective laser sintering (SLS)
• Direct metal laser sintering (DMLS)
• Plaster-based 3D printing (PP)
• Photopolymer Phase Change Inkjets
• Thermal Phase Change Inkjets
• Laminated object manufacturing (LOM)
 Fused Deposition Modeling (FDM)

• Fused Filament Fabrication (FFF)

• Filament is made of thermoplastic
materials
– e..g., ABS, polycarbonate, PLA
• Temporary support structure can
be made from water-soluble
material such as PVA
– removed using heated sodium
hydroxide solution

Source: http://reprap.org
 Stereolithography (SLA)

• SLA uses liquid ultraviolet

curable photopolymer resin
• Laser beam traces one layer
on the surface of the resin
• Laser light cures and
solidifies the layer
• The platform descends by
one layer
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/
 Photopolymers

• Change from a liquid state to solid state when exposed

with light of a certain wavelength

• Typical ingredients:
– Monomers: small molecules, lower viscosity
– Oligomers: relatively high molecular weight, e.g., acrylates,
epoxies, etc.
– Photoinitiators: generate reactive species (free radicals)
under light exposure to initiate the polymerization
– Additives: binders, surfactants, stabilizers, etc.
 How Photopolymers Work

• Free Radical Polymerization

– Initiation: Free radicals are generated through the initiator when exposed to light
– Propagation: Free radicals react with monomer molecules to generate new reactive center,
monomers react with reactive center repetitively to grow into a long chain
– Termination: Chain termination occurs when two reactive centers come close and react
with each other to yield complete macromolecules

Source: http://www.additive3d.com/photo.htm
Stereolithography Process
 Digital Light Projector (DLP) 3D Printing

• DLP 3D printer uses liquid

ultraviolet curable
photopolymer resin
• DLP exposes and solidifies
one layer at a time on the
surface of the resin
• The Z-axis moves by one layer
 DLP 3D Printing Features

• Simple design
– laser+mirror are replaced by a projector
– only one degree of freedom
• Faster than SLA
– exposes one layer at a time
• Materials
– The same as SLA
• No additional support material
– Lattice structure similar to SLA
Source: Nicholas Fang, MIT
DLP 3D Printing Process
 Selective Laser Sintering (SLS)
Direct Metal Laser Sintering (DMLS)
• SLS and DMLS use a bed of small
particles (made of plastic, metal,
ceramic, or glass)
• High-power laser traces one layer
on the surface of the powder bed
melting/fusing the particles
• The platform descends by one
layer and more material is added
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_laser_sintering
Single- and Two-Component Powders

Source: Tolochko et al. 2003

 Raw Powder Particles

Raw Ni-alloy-Cu powder mixture Raw Cu-coated Ni-alloy powder

Source: Tolochko et al. 2003

 Sintered Materials

Fe-Cu powder mixture after sintering

Source: Tolochko et al. 2003

SLS & DMLS Process

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZLGLzyMKn4
Sample Fabricated Parts

Sources: http://www.bridgesmathart.org , http://www.freedomofcreation.com

 Plaster-based 3D Printing

• This method uses a bed of small

plaster particles
• Inkjet printhead prints with liquid
(possibly colored) adhesive one layer
on the surface of the powder bed
fusing the particles
• The platform descends by one layer
and more material is added

Source: Zhou and Lu, 2011

 Plaster-based 3D Printing Features

• Similar to SLS and DMLS

– Also uses granular materials
– Uses inkjet printhead instead of laser
– Glues particles instead of melting them
• Does not require support structure
– Overhangs are supported by powder material
• The only technology supporting full-color printing
• Materials
– Plaster only
– Color can be applied (typically on/near the surface)
Source: Z corporation
Plaster-based 3D Printing Process

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnFxujCyD70
 Photopolymer Phase Change Inkjets

• Inkjet printhead jets liquid

photopolymer and support material
• UV light cures photopolymer and
support material
• Excess material is removed using a
roller
• The platform descends by one layer

Source: http://www.engatech.com/Objet-3D-Printing-Technology.asp
 Materials

• Bio-compatible
• High-temperature
• ABS-like
• Transparent
• Opaque
• Rigid
• Polypropylene-like
• Rubber-like
Source: Objet Geometries
Photopolymer Phase Change Inkjet 3D Printing

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLLq9SwSTpM
Sample Fabricated Objects

Source: Objet Geometries

 Thermal Phase Change Inkjets

• Inkjet printhead jets heated liquid

plastic and support material (wax)
• Material droplets solidify as they
cool down
• Excess material is removed using a
milling head to make a uniform
thickness layer
• Particles are vacuumed away
• The platform descends by one layer Source: http://www.additive3d.com/bpm.htm
 Thermal Phase Change Inkjets Features

• Extremely high resolution

• Slow printing time
• Materials
– Limited: plastics and waxes
• Support material
– Wax: easy to remove
• Manufactured objects are used as
casting pattern but almost never
as final functional parts
Source: http://www.protojewel.com
 Laminated Object Manufacturing (LOM)

• Sheet is adhered to a substrate with a

heated roller
• Laser traces desired dimensions of
prototype
• Laser cross hatches non-part area to
facilitate waste removal
• Platform with completed layer moves
down out of the way
• Fresh sheet of material is rolled into 1 Foil supply. 2 Heated roller. 3 Laser
beam. 4. Scanning prism. 5 Laser unit. 6
position
Layers. 7 Moving platform. 8 Waste.
• Platform moves up into position to
receive next layer
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminated_object_manufacturing
 Laminated Object Manufacturing Features

• Inexpensive – low material cost

• Color can be added using additional
printhead
• Materials
– Paper (most common), plastics,
composites
• Support material
– The same material can be used as
support
Source: http://www.solido3d.com
 LOM Printing Process

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1WNA6tdfWM
Source: http://blog.nus.edu.sg/u0804594/common-rp-techniques/laminated-object-manufacturing-lom
3D Printing Software Pipeline
3D Printing Software Pipeline
Input Model

Orientation and Positioning

Support Structures

Slicing

Path Planning

Machine Instructions
 Input File Formats

• STL (Stereolithography)
– Triangle “soup” – an unordered list of triangular facets
– Vertices ordered by the right hand rule
ASCII binary
solid name UINT8[80] – Header

}
UINT32 – Number of triangles
facet normal ni nj nk
outer loop foreach triangle
vertex v1x v1y v1z repeat
REAL32[3] – Normal vector
vertex v2x v2y v2z for each
REAL32[3] – Vertex 1
vertex v3x v3y v3z triangle
REAL32[3] – Vertex 2
endloop REAL32[3] – Vertex 3
endfacet UINT16 – Attribute byte count (0)
end
endsolid name
STL (Stereolithography) File Format

Source: Jackson 2000

3D Printing Software Pipeline
Input Model

Orientation and Positioning

Support Structures

Slicing

Path Planning

Machine Instructions
 Model Orientation

• Model orientation on the build platform influences

– Mechanical properties
– Build time
– Support volume
– Surface accuracy
– Support contact area
 Model Orientation: Mechanical Properties

strong weak
printing
direction
Model Orientation: Mechanical Properties
max load: 0.22kg
weak

printing
direction

max load: 3.51kg

strong
printing
direction
 Model Orientation: Build Time

• Build speed is slower for the z direction compared to

the xy direction

longer build time shorter build time

Model Orientation: Support Volume

support support z
support

more support volume less support volume

 Algorithms for Specifying Model Orientation

• Manual placement
– User is responsible for placing parts on the build tray
• Semi-automated placement
– User places parts on the build tray
– System provides feedback on build time, support volume, support
contact area, mechanical properties
• Automated placement
– orientation is computed using optimization according to one or
more objectives (build time, support volume, support area,
mechanical properties)
3D Printing Software Pipeline
Input Model

Orientation and Positioning

Support Structures

Slicing

Path Planning

Machine Instructions
 Support Structure Generation

• Do not require special support

– SLS, DMLS, LOM, Plaster-based
• Require support
• SLA, DLP, FDM, phase-change inkjet
• Different goals
– Prevent curling as the resin hardens
– Supporting overhangs
– Maintaining stability (part does not move or tip over)
– Supporting large flat walls
– Preventing excessive shrinkage
– Supporting slanted walls
 Support Structure Generation Depends on
Manufacturing Method
• Different for FDM, SLA/DLP, inkjet printing

support

inkjet FDM
 Simple Conservative Algorithm

• Use ray casting in the z direction to

compute all intersections for a ray
• Sort intersections in the increasing
z to determine intervals
inside/outside of the object
• Any outside intervals before the
last inside interval should contain
support
 Support Generation For FDM

• FDM printers can print at some draft angle

Huang et al. 2009

 Support Generation For FDM

• Minimize the use of support material

unoptimized support optimized support

Huang et al. 2009
Optimized Support Structures

Huang et al. 2009

Unoptimized vs. Optimized Support Structure

Huang et al. 2009

Advanced Algorithms: Photoshop
Advanced Algorithms: MeshMixer

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFTyTV3wwsE
Advanced Algorithms: Bridging the Gap

Source: Dumas, Siggraph 2014

3D Printing Software Pipeline
Input Model

Orientation and Positioning

Support Structures

Slicing

Path Planning

Machine Instructions
 Slicing

• For a discrete z value, compute an intersection of a

plane with a model
 Slicing Algorithms: Voxelization

• For each voxel compute inside/outside

• Extract contours
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
 Slicing Algorithms: Voxelization

• For each voxel compute inside/outside

• Extract contours (e.g., Marching Squares)
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
· · · · · · · · ·
Slicing Algorithms: Direct Plane-Triangle Intersection

• For each triangle

– Intersect triangle with the z plane
– If they intersect, store the line segment
• Connect line segments, store contours

1. Intersect each edge with the plane

2. If two intersection points, connect them to
form a line segment

Source: Choi and Kwok, 2002

Slicing Algorithms: Direct Plane-Triangle Intersection

• For each triangle

– Intersect triangle with the z plane
– If they intersect, store the line segment
• Connect line segments, store contours
Issues
• spurious line segments
• missing line segments

Epsilons
Slicing Algorithms: Direct Plane-Triangle Intersection

• STL models are not always watertight -> epsilons

Source: Marsan et al, 1998

 Adaptive Slicing

• Slice height is adapted to the input geometry

• Adaptive slicing is rarely used

input model uniform slicing adaptive slicing

3D Printing Software Pipeline
Input Model

Orientation and Positioning

Support Structures

Slicing

Path Planning

Machine Instructions
 What Does Path Planning Influence?

• Build time
– repositioning the tool at the start of a new path
– accelerating and decelerating for direction changes
• Surface accuracy
– the filament size
• Distortion
– materials with a high coefficient of thermal expansion
– the top layer shrinks when it hardens and it distorts since it is tied to the bottom layer
• Stiffness and strength
– fill pattern
– the area and strength of bonds depends on spacing and the time interval between the
tool traversal
 Path Planning for Raster-based 3D Printing

• Superimpose a voxel grid and

test whether a voxel is
inside/outside the model
• Trivial for DLP 3D printing
• For inkjet-based 3D printing
requires computing print head
movement (many nozzles,
distances between nozzles)
 Path Planning for Vector-based 3D Printing

• Contour
• Contour + solid interior
• Contour + interior fill pattern
Path Planning for Vector-based 3D Printing: Contour

• Allows manufacturing
hollow objects, some
overhangs, some tilted
surfaces
• Reduces frequency of tool
repositioning
• Reduces support structures

Source: http://www.3ders.org
Path Planning for Vector-based 3D Printing: Contour

• Offset inwards by distance equal to the filament radius

no offset offset inwards

Path Planning for Vector-based 3D Printing: Interior

• Tracing contours is combined with filling the interior

• The interior can be completely filled

Horton et al 1993
Han et al 2002
Path Planning for Vector-based 3D Printing: Interior

• Tracing contours is combined with filling the interior

• Many different fill patterns can be used

TriHatch QuickCast
Horton et al 1993
Path Planning for Vector-based 3D Printing: Interior

• A honeycomb-cell structure a good trade-off between

overall weight and strength
3D Printing Software Pipeline
Input Model

Orientation and Positioning

Support Structures

Slicing

Path Planning

Machine Instructions
 Machine Instructions

• Raster file formats

– DLP 3D printing, plaster-based 3D printing, phase-change
inkjets
– Proprietary, not exposed
– Can be exported as image files (e.g., PNG, BMP)
• Vector file formats
– G-Code
– SLI by 3D Systems – machine-specific 2D format for the
vector commands that control the laser beam
 G-code

• Numerical control (NC) programming language

• Developed at MIT in 1950s
• Used for CNC milling machines, now for many 3D printers
• Sample Instructions
– G00: Rapid move
• does not necessarily move in a single straight line between start point
and end point. It moves each axis at its max speed until its vector is
achieved.
– G01: Linear interpolation
• specify the start and end points, and the control automatically calculates
the intermediate points to pass through that will yield a straight line
– G02: Circular interpolation, clockwise
 G-code Example
This program draws a 1" diameter circle about
the origin in the X-Y plane.
G17 G20 G90 G94 G54
G0 Z0.25
seek the Z-axis to 0.25“
X-0.5 Y0. travel to X=-0.5 and Y=0.0
Z0.1
G01 Z0. F5. lower back to Z=0.0.
G02 X0. Y0.5 I0.5 J0. F2.5 draw a clockwise circle at a slow feed rate.
X0.5 Y0. I0. J-0.5
X0. Y-0.5 I-0.5 J0.
X-0.5 Y0. I0. J0.5
G01 Z0.1 F5.
lift the Z-axis up 0.1“
G00 X0. Y0. Z0.25
seek back to X=0.0, Y=0.0, and Z=0.25
https://github.com/grbl/grbl/wiki/G-Code-Examples
3D Printing Software Pipeline
Input Model

Orientation and Positioning

Support Structures

Slicing

Path Planning

Machine Instructions
 Representation of Multi-material Objects

• Each point in the Build Space (x  X) must map to a

composition in the Material Space (m(x)  M)

Source: Jackson 2000

Basic Multi-Material 3D Printing Software Pipeline

• Input
– A separate boundary representation for
each material (e.g. an STL file)
• The rest of the pipeline is similar

+ + +…+
 Voxel Representation of Multi-material Objects

• Voxel-based modeling
– Each voxel maintains
information about its
composition

1 Voxel
50% A
25% B
25% C
 Voxel Representation of Multi-material Objects

• Voxel-based modeling
– Each voxel maintains
information about its
composition
– When printing this
A A
volume is dithered to
obtain a halftoned
representation B C
4 Voxels
 Software Architecture Challenges

• Giga voxels/inch3, Tera voxels/foot3

• Continuous gradation between materials
• Reusable material definitions
• Resolution and printer independence
 OpenFab [Vidimce 2013]

• Inspired by rendering pipelines

• Fixed stages and programmable stages
• Procedural surface and material definitions
• Resolution independence
• Streaming architecture
 OpenFab [Vidimce 2013]

textures materia
ls

input tessellat surface voxeliz volume dithe outpu

e stage e stage r t
Extended 3D Printing Pipeline

Applications/Interactive Design
Functional Specification
Direct Specification
Hardware/Materials
Questions?
 Tell us about yourself

• Name / affiliation
• Background
• What do you want to learn? What are your expectations?
• Have you ever taken a lecture about
– Geometry processing
– Physics-based simulation
– FEM
• Programming skills
– What language(s) do you know?