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Using AC with LEDs (Part 2) - and make this handy counter light.
by qs on August 14, 2008

Table of Contents

Using AC with LEDs (Part 2) - and make this handy counter light. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1

Intro: Using AC with LEDs (Part 2) - and make this handy counter light. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2

Step 1: Some background . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2

Step 2: Our circuit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Step 3: A non-lethal installation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Step 4: Making the socket expansion light . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

Step 5: Preparing the LEDs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5

Step 6: Preparing the Socket . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5

Step 7: Installing the LEDs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6

Step 8: Finishing touches . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7

Step 9: TA-DA! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8

Related Instructables . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10

Comments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10

http://www.instructables.com/id/Using-AC-with-LEDs-Part-2-and-make-this-handy-/
Intro: Using AC with LEDs (Part 2) - and make this handy counter light.
In Using AC with LEDs (Part 1) we looked at a simple way to run LEDs with a transformer connected to AC Mains.

Here, we will look at getting our LEDs to work without a transformer and build a simple light that is integrated into an expansion bar.

WARNING: For countries with 110v mains, we'd be working with voltages of 150 volts! For Europe and other countries, we are talking about 300 volts or more! At these
levels, electricity is lethal! Do not continue unless you are comfortable with working with high voltages and are aware of the precautions to take!

AC supplies are quoted in rms (root-mean-square) values. The PEAK voltage is sqrt(2) * Vrms, which is about 1.4 * Vrms

Step 1: Some background

The simple and obvious way to get hundreds of volts down to a level to operate a LED at 20mA is to put a resistor in series with the LED. To find out what values we are
talking about, we'll use the peak value of 110v, which works out to be 150v for our example (it'll be double for Europeans and Ozzies)

150 / 20mA = 7500-ohms (we should subtract the voltage of the LED from 150v first, but the difference is minor)

7500-ohms? Not too bad... But then let's consider the power rating of this resistor, using the Power rule: P = (V2) / R, we get:

150 * 150 / 7500 = 3 watts, and that's a pretty hefty resistor. Brits with 240v mains will need a 17000-ohm resistor rated for almost 7-watts. And these will be running
HOT!

Fortunately, by substituting a capacitor for the resistor, we can get the same reduction on voltage without the (or as much) heat. Capacitors delay the phase angle of AC
which we can use to oppose itself, much like receding waves on the shore cancelling out some of the force of incoming ones.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Using-AC-with-LEDs-Part-2-and-make-this-handy-/
 Image Notes
1. No it's not an aquarium for eels! It's the symbol for AC power.

Step 2: Our circuit

Using the resistor value from before, we can calculate the value of the capacitor. Since we are already using a 1K resistor, the reactance, X (a fancy term for resistance
with capacitors) can be 1000 less than what we need.

C = 1 / (2 * pi * f * X) where f is the mains frequency

which is .4uF for 110v 60Hz, and .2uF for 240v 50Hz.

Instead of watts like resistors, capacitors are rated by volts, we have to make sure we get caps rated for AT LEAST 250-volts (States) and 450-volts for 200-volt
countries.

WARNING: Capacitors with insufficient voltage ratings may explode!

This very simple design will drive 2 - 16 LEDs without any changes. Just put the same number of LEDs in each branch, and make sure you hook them up with opposing
current flow.

Image Notes
1. Up to 8 LEDs can be wired, in series on each opposite current branch.

Step 3: A non-lethal installation

Actually, you can test out the circuit without risking your life. It's flexible enough to work as a telephone ring-indicator.

Use a .4uF (.33 to .5uF) capacitor and attach your device to the 2 leads of your telephone junction box (usually the red and green wires), and it will flash when you get a
call.

NOTE: this ONLY works on home phone circuits - PBX and Central phone systems are totally incompatible.

Image Notes
1. LEDs joined back-to-back
2. 1000-ohm 1/2W resistor
3. 0.47uF 350volt
4. Telephone plug

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Step 4: Making the socket expansion light
Now that we have the basics out of the way, this is what you need for the project.

Parts:

Socket Expansion - check to make sure it has a screw-in back. I got mine (a 'Noma') at Target (Radio Shack seem to have a similar one as well). Obviously you have to
get one that is suited for the power system in your country.

Capacitor - (US, 110v 60Hz) any value from .33uF to .47uF 250-volts MINIMUM!
(Others 200-240v 50Hz) .15uF to .22uF 400-volts MINIMUM!

Resistor - 1000-ohm (1K) 1/2W. I did not have a 1/2W resistor, so I took 3 x 3300-ohm 1/2W resistors and wired them in parallel to get a 1100-ohm 3/4W resistor

LEDs - 14 pieces of high-brightness, 20mA 5mm (T-3) White

Heat shrink tubing

http://www.instructables.com/id/Using-AC-with-LEDs-Part-2-and-make-this-handy-/
Step 5: Preparing the LEDs
I made this test rig with 2 (charged) NiCd batteries. Even though it can only supply 2.5v, it will power the LED at a low level, which lets me see the quality of the light. I
also confirmed that the + lead is the longer one.

Rank them in brightness and place the brighter ones in the middle.

Step 6: Preparing the Socket

Disassemle the Expansion Bar. Note the small isolated areas on the top and bottom edge of the unit which we can install our parts. Decide the end you wish to work on -
whether you want the light to shine UP or DOWN.

Mark out 2 rows of 7 points, 3/8" apart on masking tape. Center it on the end you decided on and start 14 holes with a 1/16" bit. Expand, using a 3/64" bit. Smooth the
holes SLIGHTLY - it should hold the LEDs snug.

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Step 7: Installing the LEDs
Make a mark on one end of the bottom row, and another mark on the opposite end of the top row. This will tell you the side the positive (longer wire) end of the LED
should go.

Bend the LEDs in an "L" shape (short wire on the appropriate side) and snug them into the bottom row.

Spread the wires about 30o to cross it's neighbor's. Solder lightly to keep in place, but DO NOT TRIM ENDS.

We will be assembling the LEDs in a lattice - see the second image. Except for the end units, each LED should have a lead touching 3 other LEDs.

It helps by pre-forming the LEDs for the top row so it can clear the "X" junction. (See image)

When you are finished, CAREFULLY reposition the leads to make room behind for the resitor(s) and capacitor. Make sure the solder joints are solid and no wire is
shorting out.

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 Image Notes
1. This space is where the resistor and capacitor will go.

Step 8: Finishing touches

Solder zip wires from the power-carrying plugs to the capacitor and the resistor. Protect with heat shrink tubing and attach each to one end of the LED chain.

Space IS tight, so only use as much wire as is needed.

The long green bundle under the cap is the resistor assembly.

The cap is linked to the other end of the LEDs with the red wire.

The big arrow is to make sure I don't start operating on the wrong end of the patient!

Make sure everything is tight and reassemble.

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 Image Notes
1. Attach point for Resistor
2. One end of the Capacitor goes here

Step 9: TA-DA!
...now my dark, dank workspace has light!

Again, high-speed photography shows the two rows of light alternating.

Continued in Part 3 .

Also, check out some other LED projects at my website !

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http://www.instructables.com/id/Using-AC-with-LEDs-Part-2-and-make-this-handy-/
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Comments
50 comments Add Comment view all 72 comments

OzoneTom says: Aug 30, 2010. 1:35 PM REPLY

I like the approach in that it seems to be more efficient than using transformers and bridge rectifiers. What value modifications would be required to add
additional strings of LEDs in parallel to the pair in this design? Thanks.

qs says: Aug 30, 2010. 3:23 PM REPLY

What this type of circuit has in terms of simplicity, it gives up in efficiency.

A well-matched transformer system can be 80% efficient and off-line (Switched) circuits even higher; using a capacitor (or any other method) to limit
current flow is much less efficient, although it slowly increases with the number of LEDs.
At the point where the total Vf of the LEDs equal the equivalent DC voltage, about 52 for 117vac, we can direct connect the LEDs and the efficiency
then becomes 100%.

Blofish says: Oct 5, 2010. 4:19 PM REPLY

So this would be more efficient if you were making something like a led light in a florescent tube type of design using 52 LEDs and no resistor?

qs says: Oct 5, 2010. 6:30 PM REPLY

Yes, since all available power is sent through the LEDs, the usage efficiency is 100%.

The image below is a light just announced by Phillips which uses a cluster of 96 LEDs to operate directly off rectified 230v mains.

Jeevendra says: Jul 15, 2010. 10:56 PM REPLY

I'm a newbie to this stuff, but very interested. Can you tell me more about the calculations? Or better yet if you can guide me to some webpage where I can
find more details. If we're to have more LEDs, lets say 20, will changing the capacitor and resistor value be sufficient? Or does it need a more advanced
circuit? I used a 1k/ 1W resistor and a 0.6uF/ 400V capacitor. Is this wrong? Your help is greatly appreciated, as it'd help me to get started. We have 220V -
240V AC supply here. Thank you in advance...

qs says: Jul 16, 2010. 9:21 AM REPLY

Jeevendra,

Please reread the values for 220vac carefully! The values you supplied will seriously overdrive the LEDs and permanently damage them. The capacitor
value is calculated as: ( 0.02 / ( 2 * pi * f * ((V * 1.4)-Vf) ), so it's not a linear relationship and certainly not directly proportional to the number of LEDs you
want to use!

For 220v supplies, you can have up to 15 LEDs in each branch without changing the basic values , so you can easily have your 20 by putting 10 in
series, in 2 opposing chains. See my response to lurkingdevil for an explanation of this.

lurkingdevil says: Jun 7, 2010. 3:29 AM REPLY

How can you wire upto 1-8 leds in each branch without previous calculation? Each added led will drop another ~3.3 volts and reduce the current going
through the branch because the impedence is kept constant. I also don't understand how you can just have a range of accepted capacitance as that would
directly affect the current going through.

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 qs says: Jun 7, 2010. 6:44 AM REPLY
The circuit is designed to allow no more than 20mA at 150-volts (for 110v mains), so an extra LED represents less than 2.5% of the total, which is not
easily detected. And that is also why I placed a limit of 8 LEDs total in a single branch - by then the drop will be 26-volts, or 17%, which will become
noticeable.

zino1234 says: Nov 1, 2009. 9:24 AM REPLY

"Since we are already using a 1K resistor,"
erm..
can tell me why we need to add the 1k resistor ?
thanks

qs says: Nov 1, 2009. 9:39 AM REPLY

The resistor is to protect the capacitor, while it , the capacitor, protects the rest of the components.

hanelyp says: Jan 10, 2010. 2:27 PM REPLY

Depending on the AC phase when the circuit is plugged in, you could get quite a current surge through the capacitor for a brief moment. Even
enough to damage the LEDs. The resistor limits the magnitude of this surge to low enough for the LEDs to survive until the capacitor charges up and
can limit further current. Other than during this turn on surge the capacitor plays the primary role in limiting current.

I once tried this same circuit without the resistor. The capacitor was fine, but a string of LEDs got burnt out.

turbonut48 says: Dec 13, 2009. 2:39 PM REPLY

I was very careful with the polarity of the LEDs.

And it turns out, the capacitor is identical to what you show.

Oh well, 3 pairs are pretty good. Its a good first try for me.

Turbonut48

turbonut48 says: Dec 8, 2009. 9:17 AM REPLY

I used the .47 /350V cap and a 900 ohm resistor. The most I could put in series were 3 white LED pairs. If I added a 4th, only one side would light ( half of
the cycle).
What do you think may have caused this? Cheap LEDs?

Turbonut48

qs says: Dec 8, 2009. 11:31 AM REPLY

It's possible there is a wiring problem with your LEDs - this symptom may be caused by having the leads connected + to +.

Another reason may be the use of a polarized or out of spec capacitor. Make sure it is a 0.47mF (or .47uF or 470nF, which are all equivalent) non-
polarized unit.

yskroc says: Nov 30, 2009. 11:00 PM REPLY

A very fundamental question (which could be silly): what is pi actually in your calculation?
Many thanks.

The Expert Noob says: Aug 18, 2008. 10:12 PM REPLY

I dont know if its late and my brain isnt working because I cant seem to straighten out the math in my head. could ya post like a text document or excell table
that I can reference to? Cause when I went for my EE (double E) I must have slept thru the basic math of caps helping the resistor cause those formulas
don't ring any bells. Sorry.

The Expert Noob says: Aug 18, 2008. 10:36 PM REPLY

ah i think i know what is throwing me off. the units that I need to be using. cause for the formula C = 1 / (2 * pi * f * X) and w/ your numbers, im getting
3.79uF~4uF not .379uF~.4uF....but like i said, it might be cause its late.

qs says: Aug 18, 2008. 11:54 PM REPLY

The basic formula to calculate Xc, the reactance of any capacitor is:

Xc= 1 / (2 * pi * f * C)

Therefore the Capacitance for any desired Reactance, by solving for C,is

C = 1 / (2 * pi * f * Xc) in Farads

For f=60Hz and Xc=6500-ohms, I get 408E-9 or 0.408uF on my calculator, while f=50Hz and Xc=16000-ohms, yield a C of 198.8E-9 or about 0.2uF

Hope this helps!

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 alzrc_13j says: Sep 3, 2009. 5:34 AM REPLY
ei qs im really confused about this thing hahaha is the resistor in series with the capacitor???if it is then aren't we talking about impedance
already??? Z = R + jXc...isn't it???

if ur c is .4uF for 110v, then ur reactance would be Xc = 6.63k ohms right??? so

using the formula for the impedance above Z=1k + j6.63k

= 6.7k< -81.42 ohms right???

so if u calculate the total current I = (110 v/.707)/(6.7k<-81.42 ohms)

will give us
=(155.58<0 volts)/(6.7k<-81.42 ohms)

I = 23.22 < 81.42 mA...am i right????

pls correct me if im wrong hhehehehe i just want to confirm i really like to play with these things to but im just confused heehehe and what would
be the voltage drop across the resistor????hahhhahahhahapls reply tnx....

The Expert Noob says: Aug 19, 2008. 7:32 AM REPLY

OHHHH Now I see what I missed..... Reactance ohm that the capacitor is (6500)+the actual resistor (1k)=the total resistance in the circuit... for
some dumb reason lastnight i was puting in 1kohm and the reactance....dee dee dee.

11010010110 says: Oct 4, 2008. 12:34 PM REPLY

Not exactly. The resistance is sqrt(R2 + Xc2) since Xc is kinda imaginary number

The Expert Noob says: Aug 19, 2008. 7:28 AM REPLY

1kohm and the reactance......1kohm as the reactance*** I cant even type. maybe i should go back to sleep.<br/>

The Expert Noob says: Aug 19, 2008. 7:24 AM REPLY

h yes. That is what I get too. Now that I have had sleep :).... Ill be saving those formulas.

Polter says: Aug 27, 2009. 7:10 PM REPLY

Hello! great and informative instructable! Why is it that when making this circuit for 230v 50hz mains the cap must be between .15-.22 uf? What if I use .33uf
cap? Can I go beyond 14 LEDs? I have 4 white LEDs a bridge rectifier, 1k 1watt resistor and a .33uf 630v capacitor. Im planning to plug it in 230v outlet. Im
planning to add 12 leds to make a room light. On a side note, I think its a safer option to add a 1m 350v resistor to discharge the cap after it is turned off.
Sorry for too many questions, I'm still learning about this stuff.

qs says: Aug 27, 2009. 8:56 PM REPLY

The combined voltages of the LED is only a small fraction of the total AC voltage, and, if the capacitor is over .22uF, the current through the LEDs will be
much higher that the rated 20mA. While it may not destroy the LEDs outright, it will seriously degrade its life-expectancy.

You will probably find each LED to be just as bright even if add 12 more LEDs to your circuit (bridge+resistor+cap ). Again, the v-drop of 12 LEDs is
about 40-volts, which is about 15% of the total voltage, and should not lower the light output noticeably.

Unless you plan on opening the circuit and playing with it after it's assembled, the 1M resistor will not affect safety.

dzhang says: Jul 17, 2009. 6:20 PM REPLY

I was wondering if its possible to put a bridge rectifier after the capacitor so that you don't have to have the 2 sets of LEDs and instead just get one regulated
dc.

qs says: Jul 17, 2009. 8:05 PM REPLY

Yes, it's possible, but aside from the added cost, why would you want to do that? Passing AC through a bridge rectifier can only very charitably be called
DC - it still has 100% of the sine-wave component, just 'folded over' so that the waves all appear along a single polarity. It is, by itself, not the same DC
that we get out of batteries not can it be used to operate electronic equipment.

dociledragons says: May 16, 2009. 6:11 AM REPLY

any Idea where to find the capacitor for US???

acmefixer says: Jul 12, 2009. 4:49 PM REPLY

You can find these capacitors in PC power supplies. Usually these don't go bad, the electrolytic (polarized) capacitors dry up or leak, and the PS stops
working.

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 qs says: May 16, 2009. 10:07 AM REPLY
Try AllElectronics.com , they supply many of the parts I use in my projects.

dociledragons says: May 16, 2009. 12:04 PM REPLY

Is there a minimum purchase?

qs says: May 16, 2009. 12:09 PM REPLY

There is no minimum for purchases, but there is a minimum shipping cost of $5 or so...

acmefixer says: Jul 12, 2009. 3:51 PM REPLY

That 3/64 drill bit is awfully small. I think you meant 3/16, which is close to the 5 mm LED size..

qs says: Jul 12, 2009. 4:12 PM REPLY

The plastic used for the casing is very soft, so it takes almost no force to enlarge the hole. Remember we need a snug fit - and it's impossible to shrink a
hole that's too big.

qs says: Jul 12, 2009. 4:41 PM REPLY

3/16 should be small enough... Although it could have been a 13/64 bit that I used, which is even bigger...

acmefixer says: Jul 12, 2009. 4:19 PM REPLY

The capacitor should have an X2 rating, for direct connection across the AC. My understanding is that if the voltage arcs over in the cap, it burns away the
foil and doesn't cause a fire or explode. The picture shows the rating and the voltage, with red arrows.

clchee says: Jun 23, 2009. 10:13 AM REPLY

Can I use a Polarized capacitor ? would it make any difference ? Secondly, for AC supply does it matter which pin goes to LIVE and which goes to Neutral ?

qs says: Jun 23, 2009. 5:26 PM REPLY

The answer to the first is an emphatic NO! Non-polarised capacitors are specially designed to handle AC - polarised capacitors used here can, and will
explode! As long as they are both shielded from touch (and each other), you can connect them either way.

furcino says: Jun 2, 2009. 10:35 PM REPLY

hey! it's a nice concept, but don't the leds have a problem with the ac switching the polarity all the time? what'd happen if you'd use a bridge (the 4 diode
rectifier) to get dc...? or do you have to use a transformer with that ?

qs says: Jun 3, 2009. 11:24 AM REPLY

The caution about running LEDs on AC is what happens when the negative swing exceeds the reverse voltage of the LED (about 5-volts), not the
changing voltage itself. The function of having 2 LEDs joined back-to-back in this circuit means that one LED is always conducting, limiting the negative
voltage on either LED to 3.3-volts. In a way, each LEDs act as a diode for the other and they protect each other.

furcino says: Jun 3, 2009. 9:58 PM REPLY

this a great idea then... so few parts. I have to try it out. Four thumbs up!

qs says: Jun 4, 2009. 3:02 PM REPLY

Thanks! Just be careful of the high voltages and you'll have lots of fun with it!

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 furcino says: Jun 3, 2009. 9:54 PM REPLY
I didn't even notice that... thx, you're right. Makes sense.

thermoelectric says: Jun 1, 2009. 5:50 PM REPLY

I used another .22uF cap (on 240v) with two red LED's connnected in reverse, but they only light really dimly, should I get a bigger or smaller cap?

qs says: Jun 1, 2009. 8:05 PM REPLY

It's possible the cap is not the right value - the EU deignation should normally say 224. The "J" suffix means it's 10% tolerance unit. Make sure too the
LEDs are connect IN PARALLEL - meaning the + of one should be connected to the - of the other. If you can take a picture of your setup, and the
capacitor, it will help a lot.

thermoelectric says: Jun 1, 2009. 8:45 PM REPLY

Well, The grey cap is the cap that is definetly 0.22uF. I have two 0.1uF caps (yellow and black cap) connected in parallel that I was connectring to the
other cap. when all the caps were in parallel the red LED's started to glow orangish so I think the 0.22uF cap might be too small by itself... Lol, when I
tested it I expected something to go bang, I haven't played with 240v for a while...

qs says: Jun 2, 2009. 7:57 AM REPLY

Be careful! Orange usually is a sign the red LEDs are overdriven. Caps in parallel add their capacitance, so it would appear that your total value
would be in the .4uF region, which would make the current through the LEDs around 50mA. Try again with JUST the two 0.1uF's in parallel for a
.2uF.

thermoelectric says: Jun 2, 2009. 3:35 PM REPLY

Will do, Thanks!

thermoelectric says: Jun 1, 2009. 1:39 AM REPLY

The capacitor I have looks like your's but it says .22J is that .22uF?

obie87 says: Apr 10, 2009. 5:39 AM REPLY

Hey QS if i want to do the same thing but on a 240vac mains how can i do it. Thanks

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http://www.instructables.com/id/Using-AC-with-LEDs-Part-2-and-make-this-handy-/