Phase and group velocity for the wave function

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The relation between the concept and formula for group velocity
As far as I know, if we have a wave function as a sum of many momentum eigen function, i.e., ##\psi=\sum_k \alpha_k e^{i(kx-\omega t)}##, the group velocity is the velocity of the whole wave function while phase velocity is the velocity of the individual components. However, I don't know how the formula ##v_g=\frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k}## satisfies such a concept of group velocity?
 
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Maybe start with this question: if you write ##\omega## as a function of ##k##, what does ##\omega(k)## represent? (Think about light in a vacuum as an example.)

Can you the phase velocity in the form ##v = v(\omega,k)##?

Given that, what does ##v_g(\omega,k) = \frac{\partial{\omega}}{\partial{k}}## tell you, if anything?
 
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olivermsun said:
Maybe start with this question: if you write ##\omega## as a function of ##k##, what does ##\omega(k)## represent? (Think about light in a vacuum as an example.)

Can you the phase velocity in the form ##v = v(\omega,k)##?

Given that, what does ##v_g(\omega,k) = \frac{\partial{\omega}}{\partial{k}}## tell you, if anything?
Thank you for modifying the question. I would like to know if we have a typical wave function, for example ##\psi(x)=exp(-\alpha x^2)##, how to realize ##\omega(k)## to then calculate the group velocity?
 
hokhani said:
Thank you for modifying the question. I would like to know if we have a typical wave function, for example ##\psi(x)=exp(-\alpha x^2)##, how to realize ##\omega(k)## to then calculate the group velocity?
Well, is your wave propagating at all?
 
olivermsun said:
Well, is your wave propagating at all?
Yes, suppose that the wave is also propagating in the free particle Hamiltonian. Then, we have ##\psi(x,t)=\sum_k \alpha_k exp(ikx-\omega t)## where ##\omega =\frac{\hbar k^2}{2m}##. Now, ##v_g=\frac{\hbar k}{m}## which depends on ##k##. So, the group velocity doesn't seem a meaningful concept.
 
hokhani said:
(...) we have ##\psi(x,t)=\sum_k \alpha_k exp(ikx-\omega t)## where ##\omega =\frac{\hbar k^2}{2m}##.
@hokhani Note that this issue of group velocity of a wave packet can be equally well formulated in, e.g., classical electromagnetism where you deal with Fourier transforms of EM fields, so that we don't have to focus much on the quantum-mechanical "background" for this particular problem. Just a small observation.

In your expansion, the coefficients ##\alpha_k = \alpha(k)## are written as functions of the wave-vector ##k##, and the same is true for the frequency: ##\omega = \omega(k)##.

Now, suppose that the function ##\alpha(k)## is focused around some value of ##k=k_0##, i.e., it is essentially non-zero in the immediate neighbourhood of some ##k_0## (like a Gaussian function, for example).

Then you can expand ##\omega(k)## in a Taylor series around ##k_0##:
$$
\omega(k) \approx \omega_0 + \left. \frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k} \right|_0 \,(k-k_0) \rm{,}
$$
where the notation ##\omega_0 = \omega(k_0)## (and likewise, the derivative is taken at the point ##k_0##).

This means that the phase factors of the exponents in your linear combination can be written as
$$
\begin{align}
i\left(kx - \omega(k)t\right) &\approx i\left(kx - \left[\omega_0 + \left. \frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k} \right|_0 \,(k-k_0)\right]\,t\right) \\
&= -it\left(\omega_0-\left. \frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k} \right|_0 k_0\right) + ik\left(x - \left. \frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k} \right|_0 \,t\right) \rm{.}
\end{align}
$$
In particular, the last term on the right hand-side above, when plugged back into the exponent, yields
$$
\exp\left(ik\left[x - \left. \frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k} \right|_0 \,t\right]\right) \equiv \exp\left(ik\left[x-v_g\,t\right]\right) \rm{,}
$$
which shows you that the whole wave packet moves uniformly with the velocity ##v_g## - the group velocity - as defined above.

Note also that ##v_g = v_g(k_0)## is taken at the value ##k_0##, so in this sense it does not "depend" on ##k## in the entire range of variation of ##k##.
 
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@div_grad: If I understood correctly, your argument says the group velocity of a wave pocket around ##k_0## (with ##k_0## at centre) is the phase velocity of the wave component with ##k_0##, i.e., ##\frac{\hbar k_0}{m}##. Since the phase velocity is linear in ##k##, ##v_{phase}=\frac{\hbar k}{m}##, the group velocity is an average of all the phase velocities in the wave pocket.
This turns out true in the simplest case which wave pocket contains two waves with wave vectors ##k_1## and ##k_2##. Here, ##v_{group}=\frac{\Delta \omega}{\Delta k}=\frac{\hbar}{2m}(k_1+k_2)=\frac{v_{phase1}+v_{phase2}}{2}## which is the average of the two phase velocities.
 
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@hokhani The group velocity is not an average of phase velocities.

In the original expansion ##\psi(x,t) = \sum_k \alpha_k \exp\left(ikx - i\omega(k)t\right)## you can rearrange the exponents under the sum as
$$
\exp\left(ikx - i\omega(k)t\right) = \exp\left(ik\left[x - \frac{\omega(k)}{k}t\right]\right) \rm{,}
$$
and call ##v_p = \omega(k) / k## the phase velocity. Note that the phase velocity ##v_p = v_p(k)## is a function of ##k##, so it is different for each component of the sum over ##k## in the expansion of ##\psi(x,t)##.

By contrast, the group velocity ##v_g = \left. \partial \omega / \partial k \right|_{k=k_0}##, obtained through Taylor expansion of ##\omega(k)## in post #6 above, is a constant number (the value of the derivative is taken at a particular point ##k=k_0##), and so it is independent of ##k## when performing the summation in the expansion of ##\psi(x,t)##. As you go through different ##k##'s in the sum, the exponential factors under the sum
$$
\exp\left(ik\left[x - \left. \frac{\partial\omega}{\partial k}\right|_{k=k_0}t\right]\right) = \exp\left(ik\left[x - v_g t\right]\right)
$$
all "move" with the same constant group velocity.
 
The expansion is in the basis of
div_grad said:
@hokhani The group velocity is not an average of phase velocities.

In the original expansion ψ(x,t)=∑kαkexp⁡(ikx−iω(k)t) you can rearrange the exponents under the sum as
$$
\exp\left(ikx - i\omega(k)t\right) = \exp\left(ik\left[x - \frac{\omega(k)}{k}t\right]\right) \rm{,}
$$
and call vp=ω(k)/k the phase velocity. Note that the phase velocity vp=vp(k) is a function of k, so it is different for each component of the sum over k in the expansion of ψ(x,t).

By contrast, the group velocity vg=∂ω/∂k|k=k0, obtained through Taylor expansion of ω(k) in post #6 above, is a constant number (the value of the derivative is taken at a particular point k=k0), and so it is independent of k when performing the summation in the expansion of ψ(x,t). As you go through different k's in the sum, the exponential factors under the sum
$$
\exp\left(ik\left[x - \left. \frac{\partial\omega}{\partial k}\right|_{k=k_0}t\right]\right) = \exp\left(ik\left[x - v_g t\right]\right)
$$
all "move" with the same constant group velocity.
Right, but the expansion is in the basis of free particles and so the time evolution is under free particle Hamiltonian with ##E=\frac{\hbar^2 k^2}{2m}##, so we have ##\omega=\frac{E}{\hbar}=\frac{\hbar k^2}{2m}## and so ## v_g=(\frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k})_{k_0}=\frac{\hbar k_0}{m}## and ##v_{phase}(k)=\frac{\hbar k}{2m}## is linear in k. Please help me if I am wrong.
 
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  • #10
@hokhani You're wrong when you claim in post #7 above that the group velocity is the average phase velocity. To resolve this, let us go over a concrete simple example when only two terms (with values ##k_1## and ##k_2##) are present in the summation in the ##\psi##-expansion. We will not use Taylor expansions explicitly, but perform simple algebraic manipulations.

First, when the amplitudes ##\alpha_k = \alpha(k)## in the expansion ##\psi(x,t) = \sum\limits_{k=k_1, k_2} \alpha(k) \exp\left(ikx - i\omega(k)t\right)## are essentially non-zero around some constant value ##k_0##, then we can replace them with a constant value ##\alpha_0 = \alpha(k_0)## so that both plane-wave components in our summation will have a common amplitude. In this way we will be able to write
$$
\psi(x,t) \approx \alpha_0 \left[ e^{ik_1x - i\omega_1t} + e^{ik_2x - i\omega_2t} \right] \rm{,}
$$
and then rewrite both exponents as
$$
e^{ik_1x - i\omega_1t} = e^{2\frac{ik_1x - i\omega_1t}{2}}
$$
(the same goes for the ##k_2##-dependent exponential term).

After this, we can take the common factor
$$
e^{\frac{ik_1x - i\omega_1t}{2}} e^{\frac{ik_2x - i\omega_2t}{2}}
$$
outside the parentheses, use the identity ##2\cos(\theta) = e^{i\theta} + e^{-i\theta}## and thus finally obtain that
$$
\psi(x,t) = 2\alpha_0 \exp\left(i \left[\frac{k_1+k_2}{2}\right] x - i \left[\frac{\omega_1+\omega_2}{2}\right] t\right) \cos\left( \left[\frac{k_2-k_1}{2}\right]x - \left[\frac{\omega_2-\omega_1}{2}\right]t \right) \rm{.}
$$

On the right hand-side of the above result we have a plane wave (i.e., this complex exponential term) with amplitude ##\sim \alpha_0##, wave vector ##\bar{k} = (k_1 + k_2)/2## and frequency ##\bar{\omega} = (\omega_1 + \omega_2)/2## - here is where the average values appear. Then, just like in post #8 above, you can write down that for this plane wave the phase velocity ##v_p = \bar{\omega}/\bar{k}## involves average quantities.

The remaining cosine term on the right hand-side above is the envelope for the plane wave and we see that this envelope (which defines the overall "shape" of ##\psi##) involves the wave vector ##\kappa = (k_2-k_1)/2 = \Delta k / 2## and the frequency ##\Omega = (\omega_2 - \omega_1)/2 = \Delta\omega/2##, which are expressed as differences of ##k##'s and ##\omega##'s, and not their averages. If we now try to calculate the phase velocity just for this cosine term using the same prescription as was given above, then we will get that it is equal to ##\Omega / \kappa = \Delta\omega / \Delta k##. While formally this can be called the phase velocity of the envelope, it is a convention to call it a group velocity (because the envelope groups together various waves, which then propagate "as a whole" inside the carrier envelope). Thus ##v_g = \Delta\omega / \Delta k##, and you can imagine that in the limit this becomes a derivative ##v_g = \partial \omega / \partial k##.

This example shows that, while there indeed appear some average values when considering this problem for ##\psi##-expansion, they nonetheless do not enter the group velocity - which is instead constructed using ratios of differences (which in the limit become derivatives).


hokhani said:
Right, but the expansion is in the basis of free particles and so the time evolution is under free particle Hamiltonian with ##E=\frac{\hbar^2 k^2}{2m}##, so we have ##\omega=\frac{E}{\hbar}=\frac{\hbar k^2}{2m}## and so ## v_g=(\frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k})_{k_0}=\frac{\hbar k_0}{m}## and ##v_{phase}(k)=\frac{\hbar k}{2m}## is linear in k. Please help me if I am wrong.
This is correct, but it has nothing to do with taking average values, and therefore is a separate issue from the one raised in post #7 above. In other words, post #7 is wrong and post #9 is correct (but each post concern a different issue).
 
  • #11
div_grad said:
@hokhani You're wrong when you claim in post #7 above that the group velocity is the average phase velocity. To resolve this, let us go over a concrete simple example when only two terms (with values ##k_1## and ##k_2##) are present in the summation in the ##\psi##-expansion. We will not use Taylor expansions explicitly, but perform simple algebraic manipulations.

First, when the amplitudes ##\alpha_k = \alpha(k)## in the expansion ##\psi(x,t) = \sum\limits_{k=k_1, k_2} \alpha(k) \exp\left(ikx - i\omega(k)t\right)## are essentially non-zero around some constant value ##k_0##, then we can replace them with a constant value ##\alpha_0 = \alpha(k_0)## so that both plane-wave components in our summation will have a common amplitude. In this way we will be able to write
$$
\psi(x,t) \approx \alpha_0 \left[ e^{ik_1x - i\omega_1t} + e^{ik_2x - i\omega_2t} \right] \rm{,}
$$
and then rewrite both exponents as
$$
e^{ik_1x - i\omega_1t} = e^{2\frac{ik_1x - i\omega_1t}{2}}
$$
(the same goes for the ##k_2##-dependent exponential term).

After this, we can take the common factor
$$
e^{\frac{ik_1x - i\omega_1t}{2}} e^{\frac{ik_2x - i\omega_2t}{2}}
$$
outside the parentheses, use the identity ##2\cos(\theta) = e^{i\theta} + e^{-i\theta}## and thus finally obtain that
$$
\psi(x,t) = 2\alpha_0 \exp\left(i \left[\frac{k_1+k_2}{2}\right] x - i \left[\frac{\omega_1+\omega_2}{2}\right] t\right) \cos\left( \left[\frac{k_2-k_1}{2}\right]x - \left[\frac{\omega_2-\omega_1}{2}\right]t \right) \rm{.}
$$

On the right hand-side of the above result we have a plane wave (i.e., this complex exponential term) with amplitude ##\sim \alpha_0##, wave vector ##\bar{k} = (k_1 + k_2)/2## and frequency ##\bar{\omega} = (\omega_1 + \omega_2)/2## - here is where the average values appear. Then, just like in post #8 above, you can write down that for this plane wave the phase velocity ##v_p = \bar{\omega}/\bar{k}## involves average quantities.

The remaining cosine term on the right hand-side above is the envelope for the plane wave and we see that this envelope (which defines the overall "shape" of ##\psi##) involves the wave vector ##\kappa = (k_2-k_1)/2 = \Delta k / 2## and the frequency ##\Omega = (\omega_2 - \omega_1)/2 = \Delta\omega/2##, which are expressed as differences of ##k##'s and ##\omega##'s, and not their averages. If we now try to calculate the phase velocity just for this cosine term using the same prescription as was given above, then we will get that it is equal to ##\Omega / \kappa = \Delta\omega / \Delta k##. While formally this can be called the phase velocity of the envelope, it is a convention to call it a group velocity (because the envelope groups together various waves, which then propagate "as a whole" inside the carrier envelope). Thus ##v_g = \Delta\omega / \Delta k##, and you can imagine that in the limit this becomes a derivative ##v_g = \partial \omega / \partial k##.

This example shows that, while there indeed appear some average values when considering this problem for ##\psi##-expansion, they nonetheless do not enter the group velocity - which is instead constructed using ratios of differences (which in the limit become derivatives).



This is correct, but it has nothing to do with taking average values, and therefore is a separate issue from the one raised in post #7 above. In other words, post #7 is wrong and post #9 is correct (but each post concern a different issue).
Thank you very much. If my post #9 is correct, then ##v_g(k)=\frac{\partial \omega}{\partial k}=\frac{\hbar k}{m}=2 v_{ph}(k)## because ##v_{ph}(k)=\frac{\omega}{k}=\frac{\hbar k}{2m}##. Therefore, we have the group velocity of a wave pocket around ##k_0## as ##v_g(k_0)=\frac{\hbar k_0}{m}## and if we have ##k_0## at the centre of the wave pocket, then ##v_g(k_0)## is the average of the group velocity of all the components of the pocket (or twice the average of the phase velocity of all the components in the pocket). My minor error was only missing a 2 in the denominator of the phase velocity .
Also, in the simple example of the two waves with ##k_1## and ##k_2## this turns out to be correct and we have ##v_g=\frac{\Delta \omega}{\Delta k}=\frac{\hbar}{2m} (k_1+k_2)= 2\frac{v_{phase1}+v_{phase2}}{2}##, i.e., the group velocity is twice the average of the phase velocity of the two components.
 
  • #12
The group velocity is often motivated (and justified) by the stationary phase approach.
It goes something like this:
Consider a wave packet$$\psi(t,x)=\int \alpha(k)e^{i[\omega(k)t-kx+\phi(k)]}dk$$where ##\alpha(k)## is a real function concentrated around its peak at ##k_0## . ##\phi(k)## are the phases of the individual modes at the origin ##(t,x)=(0,0)## . Define$$\Phi(k)=\omega(k)t-kx+\phi(k) \quad .$$Now, at a random point ##(t,x)## the phases ##\Phi(k)## of the individual modes will change rapidly as a function of ##k## , so the modes' contributions to ##\psi## will interfere destructively, yielding a near-zero value. On the other hand, when$$\left. \frac{d\Phi}{dk} \right | _{k_
0}=0$$the dominant modes around ##k_0## will have nearly the same phase ##\Phi(k_0)## and will interfere constructively, yielding a non-zero maximum for ##\left|\psi\right|## . The condition is fulfilled at$$x_{max}=\left. \frac{d\omega}{dk} \right |_{k_0} t+\left. \frac{d\phi}{dk} \right |_{k_0}=v_g t+x_0 \quad .$$So in coordinate space ##\psi## will appear to be moving with the group velocity. In general, its "shape" will change in time.
 
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  • #13
JimWhoKnew said:
The group velocity is often motivated (and justified) by the stationary phase approach.
It goes something like this:
Consider a wave packetψ(t,x)=∫α(k)ei[ω(k)t−kx+ϕ(k)]dkwhere α(k) is a real function concentrated around its peak at k0 . ϕ(k) are the phases of the individual modes at the origin (t,x)=(0,0) . DefineΦ(k)=ω(k)t−kx+ϕ(k).Now, at a random point (t,x) the phases Φ(k) of the individual modes will change rapidly as a function of k , so the modes' contributions to ψ will interfere destructively, yielding a near-zero value. On the other hand, when$$\left. \frac{d\Phi}{dk} \right | _{k_
0}=0You can't use 'macro parameter character #' in math modeYou can't use 'macro parameter character #' in math modex_{max}=\left. \frac{d\omega}{dk} \right |_{k_0} t+\left. \frac{d\phi}{dk} \right |_{k_0}=v_g t+x_0 \quad .$$So in coordinate space ψ will appear to be moving with the group velocity. In general, its "shape" will change in time.
You say that the contribution of the components with k far from the peak of α(k) (at ##k_0##) is
negligible and the wave pocket moves with the group velocity ## \left. \frac{d\omega}{dk} \right |_{k_0}##. So, with ##\omega(k)=\frac{\hbar k^2}{2m}## we have ##v_g=\frac{\hbar k_0}{m}##. Is there any correspondence between this result and the definition of group velocity as ##v_g=\langle \psi| \frac{p}{m}|\psi \rangle## in solid state books?
 
  • #14
hokhani said:
You say that the contribution of the components with k far from the peak of α(k) (at ##k_0##) is
negligible and the wave pocket moves with the group velocity ## \left. \frac{d\omega}{dk} \right |_{k_0}##. So, with ##\omega(k)=\frac{\hbar k^2}{2m}## we have ##v_g=\frac{\hbar k_0}{m}##. Is there any correspondence between this result and the definition of group velocity as ##v_g=\langle \psi| \frac{p}{m}|\psi \rangle## in solid state books?
I also say that the contribution of the components near ##k_0## is small, unless the stationary phase condition is satisfied in the vicinity of the point ##(t,x)## in question.
The similarity between the group velocity and the expectation value ##\langle P/m \rangle## is expected for the free particle, but in general these are two different quantities. For example: assume ##\phi(k)=0## and$$\alpha(k) = \begin{cases} 0, & k \lt 0 \\ 2k^2e^{-k}/\sqrt{3}, & k \geq 0 \end{cases} \quad .$$##\langle P/m \rangle## can be calculated easily in momentum space, and it is not ##\frac{\hbar k_0}{m}## ( ##k_0=2## in the appropriate units). But if we will "sharpen" ##\alpha## around ##k_0## , we expect to get closer and closer to ##\frac{\hbar k_0}{m}## .

You can also consider superposition of a packet moving right with a packet moving left. ##k_0## is no longer defined uniquely, so what is the group velocity? However, ##\langle P/m \rangle## can still be evaluated, and we might get ##\alpha(\langle k \rangle)=0## .

A nice relevant discussion can be found in section 1.C and complements F1,G1 of "Quantum Mechanics" (Cohen-Tannoudji, Diu & Laloë).

hokhani said:
Is there any correspondence between this result and the definition of group velocity as ##v_g=\langle \psi| \frac{p}{m}|\psi \rangle## in solid state books?
I don't recall ever seeing this definition. Can you provide references?

Late edit:
In complement G1 (Cohen-Tannoudji et al.), the explicit calculation is carried out for a free particle whose ##\alpha(k)## is a Gaussian (they call it ##g(k,0)## ). From equation (17) one can see that no matter how tall and narrow ##\alpha(k)## is, the maximum of ##\left|\psi(t,x)\right|## will approach zero for ##t\rightarrow\infty## . I currently don't know the reason, but I think it is because ##\left. d^2\Phi(k)/dk^2 \right|_{k_0}## becomes very large as ##t## grows, thus narrowing down the zone around ##k_0## that contributes to the constructive interference.
 
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