Wikipedia:Requests for deletion/Requests/2020/Raman Bandarenka

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The outcome of this request for deletion was to keep (no consensus). Even discounting the votes from editors who appeared to have been canvassed, there is no consensus that the subject of the article fails WP:VICTIM, especially in light of the larger context of the 2020 Belarusian protests. I also want to note here that concerns arising from WEIGHT and NPOV alone are insufficient reasons to delete an article. Chenzw  Talk  03:20, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Raman Bandarenka

Raman Bandarenka (edit · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete) · close request

Auntof6 has nominated this page for deletion for the reason: This person seems to be known only in connection with the protests he participated in. WP:VICTIM says that such people should not normally have individual articles. Auntof6 (talk) 07:10, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Please discuss this request below, but keep in mind that you shouldn't vote on everything and that there may be options other than "keep" or "delete", such as merging.

Discussion

• Due extensive coverage, Raman Bandarenka may be notable as a symbol of the 2020 Belarusian protests (just google "Raman Bandarenka", or Belarusian: Раман Бандарэнка, or Russian: Роман Бондаренко). For example, this fact speaks out. On November 26, 2020, European Parliament discussed the situation in Belarus. The discussion resulted in the adoption of a resolution "On the continuation of human rights violations in Belarus, in particular the murder of Raman Bandarenka," supported by an absolute majority of deputies, calling for a "prompt, thorough, impartial and independent investigation into the death." (https://web.archive.org/web/20201126174218/https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/RC-9-2020-0389_EN.html). The recent TUT.BY investigation is a big one too (because no criminal case was opened on his killing (!)), so independent outlets try to shed light on it by themselves to not let the crime be forgotten and murders go unpunished.. The person is constantly in the news. -- pr12402, 14 December 2020
• I think this will be a tough one. He was taking part/was close to the protests, had an argument/a fight with an unknown attacker (probably not police), was arrested, probably for at least "disagreeing" with police, and was later put in hospital, where he died. Except for the languages of "close" countries (Belarus, Ukraine, Russia), there's also an article in German Wikipedia, with a reference to Deutsche Welle. Unlike Shooting of Breonna Taylor, which we can attribute to police violence/misconduct, we can't do that here: At the time of his arrest, he had already quarreled with the unknown attackers (not police). Police then arrested him, and later put him in hospital, possibly after releasing him. Even if we say, that he was in police custody for a few hours (3-4 hours), and that police didn't treat him well, we cannot clearly attribute his death to police misconduct. In my opinion, the article itself is already too large to merge it somewhere. So: reluctant keep --Eptalon (talk) 09:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
•  Delete per WP:VICTIM and en:WP:BLP1E (recently deceased). Not notable for a standalone article. --IWI (talk) 09:23, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
• On 19th Nov a huge chunk was added which included obviously copied material. If we keep this page it should be redacted to its state before the 19th Nov, plus removing any unsourced claims that still remain.. We can't allow a situation where an obvious political viewpoint is allowed to overwhelm an article. No matter what the rights and wrongs, it damages our reputation to allow pages to (effectively) become propaganda sheets. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:33, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

See En:Square of Changes to see how they handled it. Macdonald-ross (talk) 09:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Raman Bandarenka, died after reportedly being beaten by security forces.. There are sources on all the claims in the article. They are being added from RU page. -- pr12402, 14 December 2020

From the changes I have seen: If the article is kept, we need to make sure it is neutral. You might not agree with the result that Lukashenko was re-elected, but officially he is the current president. Similarly: The police forces in Belarus may have a tendency to be violent, but honestly, I don't beleieve that some group of people in civilian clothes act on behalf of the government, provoke and beat up random demonstrators. So: if kept, the article needs to be neutral in tone, and not favor one side of the story. It also needs to be adapted to our readership, so an 1:1 Copypaste won't do either.--Eptalon (talk) 10:19, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

• • If you don't believe, please read thoroughly this. -- pr12402, 14 December 2020

It is not a matter what I believe; the question is what to do with the article; also, if kept, the article should reflect a neutral viewpoint.--Eptalon (talk) 10:35, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

•  Keep The murder caused an unprecedented resonance. In addition, there are many publications in reputable media (BBC, Spiegel, US news, DW) Vit Koz (talk) 10:22, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

This isn’t really enough to say it meets WP:VICTIM. --IWI (talk) 14:31, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

•  Comment: Response to User:Eptalon regarding "I don't beleieve that some group of people in civilian clothes act on behalf of the government, provoke and beat up random demonstrators.": Please do not state your unsupported opinion and do not write how you feel about the information. Please read the articles provided or watch the videos to look for the facts. In those sources, you would find the widely used practice of the undercover police, special force police and KGB cracking down on the protest and protesters by changing in the civilian clothing, kidnapping and attacking people, breaking into the people homes to do searches, instigating violence during the protest. --Partizan Kuzya (talk) 14:15, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
• Strong Keep: Bandarenka's death was widely publicized in the international news; he is a well-known figure now in Belarus and outside. There are speculations that some prominent people were directly involved in his death, so even more coverage of this tragedy might be expected in the future. I agree on the necessity to have a neutral viewpoint for this article. --Partizan Kuzya (talk) 14:15, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

  Once again: This is a request for deletion; the question to decide is whether to keep, or delete the article, or perhaps to find another solution such as merging. All I wanted to express: If the article is kept, it must have a neutral point of view, and an acceptable language. As an example, I amended that police forces said that they found Badarenka unconscious, and called an ambulance, which is also in one of the articles cited. We are trying to write an article for an encyclopedia. We should therefore cover all sides a story has to offer. --Eptalon (talk) 14:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

•  Keep WP:VICTIM says that "The victim, consistent with WP:BLP1E, had a large role within a well-documented historic event. The historic significance is indicated by persistent coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources that have significant attention to the individual's role". In fact, Bandarenka's death was not only covered in the international press but also by Alexander Lukashenko himself. In addition, Latvia named this incident as a reason for moving the ice hockey championship from Belarus to another country. This incident therefore lead to an international crisis and fully meets the criteria of WP:VICTIM.--KastusK (talk) 12:49, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
• If it is not edited to be more dispassionate and neutral, I would vote for delete. Macdonald-ross (talk) 15:21, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
•  Comment: I would ask the closing admin to look at the votes carefully here before closing this RfD. --IWI (talk) 14:56, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

@ImprovedWikiImprovment: I would hope we always do that. Is there a particular reason you think that's needed here? --Auntof6 (talk) 21:47, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

@Auntof6: New accounts popping up to vote likely mean some form of meatpuppetry is happening. --IWI (talk) 23:11, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

• Delete I think WP:VICTIM is pretty clear about what should happen here. The information contained in the article may be useful, if we want to use it in another article. It might make a good addition to 2020 Belarusian presidential election in a section further outlining the protests. But as a stand alone, it doesn't make the cut.--Gordonrox24 | ^Talk 04:36, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

This request is due to close on 07:10, 21 December 2020 (UTC), seven days after it was filed, although it may be closed earlier at the discretion of an administrator.

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.