User talk:Jimbo Wales

(Manual archive list)

URLs ending in period cause issues when copied to clients such as email

Per twitter convo (as @mwiik) w/@jimmy_wales, alerting folks to issue with URLs ending in period. An issue arises when such URLs are copied to clients such as email or twitter. Clients typically link such URLs but remove the ending period, thus causing the link not to be found. I do not know the full list of clients affected, but since this seems quite reasonable client behavior, I suggest a fix on wikipedia's end.

I first noticed this on SCOTUS cases, and surveyed such cases within wikipedia, obtaining the following list of 156 URLs. I do not claim this list is 100% complete and of course there may be other pages not pertaining to SCOTUS cases that may be affected.

Here is the list of 156 SCOTUS cases from my survey. Unfortunately, the wikipedia server (or editor) also doesn't include the final period in a raw URL, so all the below links will not work as they are, you must add a period to the end.— Preceding unsigned comment added by NullSpaceKid (talk • contribs) 19:33, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

With apologies for refactoring your comment, NullSpaceKid, I've collapsed the list of URLs for readability. It seems like that simplest solution would be to create redirects on the pages without periods to point to the correct ones. Some of the cases listed above already have such redirects. Novusuna ^talk 20:13, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that seems appropriate. They should be tagged with {{R from modification}} when doing so. It's probably also worth making a note of this somewhere - at the MOS for article naming perhaps? — Scott • talk 15:24, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

This came up at tea-house. A couple of solutions were proposed, let me find them. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 01:17, 22 April 2014 (UTC).

Yes indeed, we came up with the same solution. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 01:29, 22 April 2014 (UTC).

About 139 of these do not exist (Merck v. Integra is a redirect already, but a different redirect was needed). If there is consensus I can quickly make the rest of these redirects. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 02:20, 22 April 2014 (UTC).

I can't think of any reason why not, and it would be a great kindness if you could do that.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 07:56, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Sounds like a title for an article I should write, "The Great Kindness of Redirects". You wouldn't believe how often organizations ruin their websites during "upgrades" by changing urls and not leaving redirects to the new locations. One reason Wikipedia is such an awesome website is that we are always thinking about the user. Jehochman ^Talk 13:00, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter—April 2014

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has mostly worked on performance improvements, image settings, and preparation for a simplified citation template tool in its own menu.

• In an oft-requested improvement, VisualEditor now displays red links (links to non-existent pages) in the proper color. Links to sister projects and external URLs are still the same blue as local links.
• You can now open templates by double-clicking them or by selecting them and pressing  Return.  This also works for references, images, galleries, mathematical equations, and other "nodes".
• VisualEditor has been disabled for pages that were created as translations of other pages using the Translate extension (common at Meta and MediaWiki.org). If a page has been marked for translation, you will see a warning if you try to edit it using VisualEditor.
• When you try to edit protected pages with VisualEditor, the full protection notice and most recent log entry are displayed. Blocked users see the standard message for blocked users.
• The developers fixed a bug that caused links on sub-pages to point to the wrong location.
• The size-changing controls in the advanced settings section of the media or image dialog were simplified further. VisualEditor's media dialog supports more image display styles, like borderless images.
• If there is not enough space on your screen to display all of the tabs (for instance, if your browser window is too narrow), the second edit tab will now fold into the drop-down menu (where the "Move" item is currently housed). On the English Wikipedia, this moves the "Edit beta" tab into the menu; on most projects, it moves the "Edit source" tab. This is only enabled in the default Vector skin, not for Monobook users. See this image for an example showing the "Edit source" and "View history" tabs after they moved into the drop-down menu.
• After community requests, VisualEditor has been deployed as an opt-in feature at Meta and on the French Wikinews.

The drop-down menu is on the right, next to the search box.

Looking ahead:  A new, locally controlled menu of citation templates will put citations immediately in front of users. You will soon be able to see the Table of Contents while editing. Support for upright image sizes (preferred for accessibility) is being developed. In-line language setting (dir="rtl") will be offered as a Beta Feature soon. Looking further out, the developers are also working on support for viewing and editing hidden HTML comments. It will be possible to upload images to Commons from inside VisualEditor.

If you have questions or suggestions for future improvements, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting a note at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback or by joining the office hours on Monday, 19 May 2014 at 18:00 UTC. If you'd like to get this on your own page, subscribe at Wikipedia:VisualEditor#Newsletter for English Wikipedia only or at meta:VisualEditor/Newsletter for any project. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:23, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Partial autotranslation of Italian/Spanish cites

The new Template:Cita_news provides interwiki support for cites written in Italian/Spanish, with auto-translation of date/month names into English (using Lua string replacement). One of the tangent issues with wp:autofixing cites has been the use of Spanish or Italian cite templates in enwiki text. For many years, German-language parameters have been supported in some infoboxes (such as Template:Infobox_Town_AT), and a similar need has been shown for occasional inclusion of Spanish (or Italian) cites.
The leftover cites from Italian/Spanish text translated into English seem to arise due to expertise needed in 3 areas:

• basic knowledge of Italian/Spanish for English idioms
• knowlege of parameters of the Italian template or Spanish plantilla
• knowlege of Template:Cite_news on English Wikipedia

Some editors forget to handle all 3 aspects, and so the results have included a mix of English and invalid Italian/Spanish parameter names in cites, which Template:Cita_news now handles by autotranslating any into English. Also, people forget to replace Italian/Spanish dates with English month names, so the template translates dates as well. A similar approach should be used for non-English infoboxes, but also translate numbers for dot-comma separator, where "25.600" would be displayed as "25,600" (or "1,25" as "1.25") for an English infobox, using a quick Lua module to translate numeric formats. Invalid numbers such as "3,25" have existed in hand-translated infoboxes for years. A major benefit of autotranslation is to catch every tiny detail which hand-editing has overlooked for years. The overall strategy is to have smarter templates, periodically maintained by "template-gnomes" (among the wp:template_editors user group), rather than spend hours each day tediously hand-fixing dozens of pages which the smarter templates would autofix instantly (without months/years of waiting for hand-fixes). More later. -Wikid77 (talk) 18:03, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

"Jews and Communism" article

I've never done this before, but I guess there's always a first time: Jimbo, if you're back from vacation, I'd be curious to get your reaction to Jews and Communism. I just became aware of its existence because of an ANI thread. I am deeply disturbed by this article, as it has an all-encompassing title and yet deals only very skimpily with the main intersection between Jews and Communism, which is one of hostility, persecution, anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism and conflict. Instead the point of the article is a simple-minded "hey, look at all the commie Jews." To my knowledge, there is no article on Gentiles and Communism or Russian Orthodox people and Communism, so I can understand the outrage that some people feel concerning this article. It doesn't help that there is an opening illustration that could have come from the pages of Der Sturmer. Anyway, I'm curious how you feel about it, and whether the discomfort some editors feel about this is well-warranted or not. Coretheapple (talk) 19:54, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

You are conflating the Soviet Union with "Communism" when you characterize "the main intersection between Jews and Communism" as "one of hostility, persecution, anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism and conflict." Actually, the subject of the relationship between Jewish radicalism and emergence of the communist movement is well documented in the scholarly literature. I urge you to haul this piece to AfD if you think this is not the case. I'm sure there is an article somewhere entitled History of Jews in the Soviet Union or some such, which is an entirely different, also encyclopedic, topic. Carrite (talk) 20:52, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

"You are conflating.." Uh yes I am, you betcha, just as I would "conflate" "Nazism" and "Nazi Germany." "Actually, the subject of the relationship between Jewish radicalism...." Such an article deserves to exist. But this is not it. This one is about "Jews and Communism." Coretheapple (talk) 21:15, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

There's this little country called China... Another place called Cuba. And so on... Just saying. You may have a legitimate gripe about the current article title, I'm not saying you don't. But, really, are we going to argue content here? Like I say, this topic is a 100% drop-dead certain GNG pass, in my view, but you are free to differ and challenge the piece. Carrite (talk) 21:26, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

The topic Germans and the Nazi Party is just as notable, but there's no article about that. Wonder why? USchick (talk) 21:30, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

OK, look, here's the thing. I wasn't trying to whip up a discussion here, believe it or not. I've tagged the article for neutrality (my only edit to the article) and it can be discussed there. However, I did react in a strongly negative way to the article, it repelled me in a way I've never experienced before, and I just wanted to appeal way on up to the top man to see how he felt. That's all. If possible, that is, if he'd be so kind. Coretheapple (talk) 21:30, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Sarah Jane Brown → Sarah Brown (wife of Gordon Brown)

Yep. Really. Talk:Sarah Jane Brown#Requested move 8. (And the same crew are challenging the close of the failed Hillary Rodham Clinton → Hillary Clinton discussion.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 21:02, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Has she stated a preference? Would it be useful for me to inquire?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:13, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

IMHO, no. The only consequence of doing that on the proposed Clinton move was to promote a divisive and distracting debate on whether it was proper to do so. More importantly, it did not figure in the closers' decision. And Anthonyhcole, when you say "same crew" I only see one user in common. DeCausa (talk) 21:23, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Regardless, eight move requests is getting silly. There is no ambiguity, and the request to move to "wife of Gordon Brown" seems to me to be calculated to belittle the subject. Up to the early 20th Century she'd have been referred to as "Mrs. Gordon Brown" in official correspondence, we have (thankfully) moved on from that. Guy (Help!) 21:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Not that I'm aware of. The discussion, opened by a very slick IP (as was the Clinton move proposal) has been closed down by Guy (Jzg). Personally, I oppose that - I'd like to confirm where the project stands on this question. It was moved away from "wife of" 10 months ago. (A recent proposal to move to "Sarah Brown" was defeated largely on the basis that Ms Brown is not the clear primary topic for that name. Though it should be taken into account if known, the subject's preference would in my estimation normally be subordinate to the principle that defining a woman as a man's wife is inappropriate. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 21:35, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

I am the user who made the current move request. I have played absolutely no part in what is currently happening at Hillary Rodham Clinton. Move request 6 (which was actually a request for comments) took place nearly one year ago. Move request 7 was made at the beginning of the week, and editors there suggested an alternative name. Since there was consensus against move request 7, yet the calls for an alternative suggestion, I followed WP:BOLD and closed move request 7 early and began move request 8. The current title violates WP:CRITERIA, WP:COMMONNAME, WP:MIDDLES and WP:NPOV. Because of this, and also the suggestions of other users, I think it is unfair and fundamentally untrue to describe it as 'calculated to belittle the subject': it is a genuine suggestion after carefully considering Wikipedia's guidelines and policies and considering the subject too. I have explained all of this properly at the move request. I suggest, instead of causing unnecessary discussion elsewhere, that users look at the move request, consider Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and come to their own opinions whilst following WP:NPOV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.185.66 (talk) 21:44, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't see any implications for NPOV here. What is non-neutral about it?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:46, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for asking and assuming good faith instead of just assuming something negative, Jimbo (and I apologise for forgetting to sign my contribution). Instead of repeating the same arguments here, I recommend you read the move request, or at least the part of it that relates to WP:NPOV. I have taken the time there to think carefully about all of the possible issues and have addressed them individually. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 21:58, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

I find the argument unpersuasive. 'Sarah Jane Brown' is neutral. It may not be the best title, but the problem with it is not about neutrality. 'Sarah Brown (wife of Gordon Brown)' is highly non-neutral - a desire to avoid a possible BLP problem like that doesn't make 'Sarah Jane Brown' non-neutral.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:02, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Also, just so I have made this clear, my suggestion has absolutely nothing to do with sexism on my part. I would have made precisely the same suggestion if this were a non-notable husband marrying a woman Prime Minister. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 22:00, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

"Non-notable"? If it hangs on that then the answer is easy: AfD. DeCausa (talk) 22:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

This is where all of the confusion and contention lies, DeCausa. WP:NOTINHERITED explicitly states that people such as Mrs Brown are entitled to their own articles simply because of the position (the page mentions 'First Lady'). This means that the page cannot simply be deleted or merged. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 22:10, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

It is clear that were there no disambiguation issue, we would choose "Sarah Brown". Given that there are other notable people with that title such that we need a disambiguation page, the question becomes: how best to do that. There will be minor problems with all approaches. 'Sarah Brown (wife of Gordon Brown)' is viewed by some (most?) as sexist, particularly since she's clearly notable in her own right for her own work. But names like 'Sarah Brown (philanthropist)' or similar strike me as odd, since she is most famous for being spouse of the Prime Minister. So 'Sarah Jane Brown' is a neutral and uncontroversial option to deal with the disambiguation problem without implying anything about the reasons for her notability, which is best left to the full text of the article to explain.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:18, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Is it true?

Admit it, this is all just a social experiment, to see what happens when a society is created from the ground up with no rules and no government. The fact that it's online keeps people from killing each other, so it's a safe place to conduct the experiment. Right? Am I right? You don't have to answer. One wink for "yes" two winks for "no." USchick (talk) 21:16, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 21:23, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Ha ha, I knew it! USchick (talk) 21:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)