Talk:Judith Collins

List Placing in 48^th Parliament

In the article it says that Collins was placed 7^th on the Party List in 2005 , but on John Key's article, it says he was placed 7^th too. Can someone please help/fix?
Thanks
Adabow (talk) 04:07, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Gadfium, thanks for updating.

Adabow (talk) 03:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

NPOV / COI

This page it seems to have been edited in such a way that it is now not encyclopedic and definitely not written from a neutral point of view. To me it seems that a lot of the material on the page is poorly sourced and contentious POV material, which has been edited by someone who appears that they might have a conflict of interest?

As this is a biography of a living person (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Help) it needs to be fair - which means a lot of the material which is negative, positive, or just questionable can be removed immediately. Much of the material in the achievements, controversies and reputation sections seems to fit into this - so how about we just delete those sections, removing the opportunities for various political fractions to soap box? Since these are major changes I'm thinking a post to the Biographies of living persons Noticeboard might be a good way to get things started? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarke43 (talk • contribs) 06:32, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

I would be reluctant to see a wholesale removal of the material as it is generally well sourced. If you believe some sources are inadequate, it would help if you pointed them out. The New Zealand Herald, Dominion-Post and 3 News are generally regarded as reliable sources. I agree that some of the wording could be tightened up (eg "In March 2010 it was revealed that Collins ..." can be simplified to "In March 2010 Collins ...") or made more neutral (although "debacle" does not seem too strong a word for the ACC situation).

I think a reorganisation of the article would be appropriate, with the existing "Achievements" and "Controversies" headings removed and replaced with the headings "Corrections Minister", "Justice Minister" and "ACC Minister" (perhaps also "Police Minister"), with the relevant paragraphs moved under these headings in approximately chronological order. Much or all of the "Her reputation" section could also be moved under these headings.-gadfium 19:34, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea - it would make it easier to add some balance to the page.

It seems that Offender9000 (who it has been previously established as having a COI in the Justice/Corrections space) has been doing regular edits to remove balance from the page. e.g. a couple of days ago, he removed a new edit from NZFC13 about David Bain without any discussion

• Right - because the article is about Judith Collins - not David Bain. Offender9000 04:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

On the other hand, NZ Herald Commentator Tapu Misa describes the suggestion that Collins should have accepted Justice Binnie's report without question as "ridiculous". Misa says Collins seems to have been "driven by legitimate misgivings on the soundness of Binnie's conclusions". Collins' decision to have the report peer reviewed by Hon Dr Robert Fisher QC has also been publicly supported by Otago University Law Professor Mark Henaghan who said Collins was "being responsible".

was replaced with

After waiting 12 months for Justice Binnie to complete his report, Collins' decision to reject it meant a decision on compensation was no closer to being made.

This is another example of a comment on the page which is not NPOV and isn't referenced. I am going to remove this and reinstate the edit that NZFC13 made. I'll start doing some minor edits - anything large I will post on the talk page before making the changes. I will also give inserting the Minster headings a go.

I'd like to thank Clarke43 for reinstating my comments and agree with what's been said about re-organising this page to ensure it is as balanced as possible. I'm happy to help out and make sure the page remains excellently sourced and appropriately referenced. NZFC13 (talk) 03:29, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

• What on earth are you talking about? The statement: "After waiting 12 months for Justice Binnie to complete his report, Collins' decision to reject it meant a decision on compensation was no closer to being made" is factual and entirely neutral. It does not contain anyone's opinion about anything and therefore does not reflect any point of view. Offender9000 04:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

If you can provide a good reference showing that it is factual then lets include it. I would think that no one except Collins and Cabinet knows how close a decision on compensation is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarke43 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm curious why three brand new accounts and an anon all show up within a few days, interested only in this article, and all quite knowledgeable about wiki syntax and how Wikipedia operates. Is this one person who hasn't yet decided on what username to use? If so, that's fine, but do pick one name and stick with it. Is it a group of people who work together, perhaps in Collins' office or as part of her electoral organisation? That's potentially a problem; you need to read WP:COI. In any case, please read WP:SPA, and feel free to reassure me about your connections.-gadfium 03:43, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. I did a fair bit of background reading before putting my hand up to try and get this page edited, because as you noted it is my first time that I have attempted to edit, and it appears to be a fairly intimating community to start getting involved with. I can confirm that that I don't work for Collins or form part of her or the National party electoral organisation. I don't care for Collins one way or another - but want to see a balanced page with multiple contributors unlike it is currently. Hence posting on the talk page (as suggested in the beginners FAQs) to try and get people collaborate and move the page to become balanced like other political pages on Wikipedia. BTW the anon was me - I was somehow not logged in when I went to edit the talk page - I tried to go back and fix - but failed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarke43 (talk • contribs) 02:22, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

• I disagree with removing the section on her reputation. Collins is unique because of the aggressive way she goes about things - hence her reputation is a key feature of any biography about her. Offender9000 04:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

• I have no strong feelings whether the content gets restructured as per Gadfium's suggestion, or whether the current structure is kept. I've just been through the article and added some content, quite a few references, and tidied things up a bit, but without doing any structural changes. If anybody wants to improve the article further, the existing references could be tidied up by using cite templates. Schwede66 08:22, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Collins handling of David Bain compensation

In my opinion the comments by Tapu Misa about Binnie's report may be appropriate in an article about David Bain (and whether he should receive compensation) - but are not particularly relevant in this article which is about Judith Collins and her high handed behaviour. However since a number of editors seem to want to include Misa's comments - which are supportive of Collins handling of the case - then they need to be balanced by comments from other commentators which are not. Offender9000 22:29, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

This article isn't about 'high handed behaviour' - it is meant to be a balanced article on Judith Collins, so I think it is great that you have sourced some material to balance the existing content in that paragraph. Clarke43 (talk) 01:49, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

• Offender9000 posted a further comment here showing his biased views on Collins - referring to her being unbalanced. It seems he has now removed it - but is visible in his edit of 20:46, 29 December 2012. Clarke43 (talk) 01:50, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Replace photo

Great that folk are keen to try and tidy this page up as IMHO it has become greatly less balanced over time and now includes material which have no relevance or have been added with bias to take shots at Collins. My initial two cents worth is to replace that photo - surely there is a photo of Collins that at least shows her face? Are the official photos of her released with suitable terms and conditions so that we can be put it up on here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truebluenz (talk • contribs) 21:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately the official photos are not released with suitable licences. You can see reports of various attempts to request that photos be released under Creative Commons licences at Wikipedia:WikiProject New Zealand/Content task force. We have tended to focus on those politicians for whom we have no photos at all. Note that we cannot accept photos with a "no commercial use" tag.-gadfium 23:07, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

I am really surprised at this since it results in some MP's not even having photos! I wonder if the actual individual PR reps are aware? I would have thought they would be keen to sort this if they knew. I'll bring this to the attention of some contacts to see if they can do anything to rectify the situation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truebluenz (talk • contribs) 21:05, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

You are not the only one who is surprised. There's a huge amount of background to this on the Content task force page, and there's more on the respective talk page. Would be great if you could help. Schwede66 08:51, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I am Judith's press secretary. Happy to help out by providing a more recent photo for use. As I have a clear COI and in line with the WP:COI policy I won't be editing content on the page but I may suggest changes which you can choose to take up or not and can provide further background material etc as requested.Jc press sec (talk) 23:35, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the photo. It's of rather low resolution at just 19 kB; would you by chance have a higher resolution photo? If yes, click on the 'Upload a new version of this file' link on this page and replace what's already there; no changes needed on Wikipedia itself. Please feel free to suggest changes here and I'm sure somebody will attend to it. Great to have you on board. Schwede66 07:58, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

As suggested I have uploaded a higher-res image Jc press sec (talk) 01:21, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Achievements - 'tighted up on security measures' - Offender9000 COI

The first paragraph of the 'Achievements' section discusses an increase the availability of alcohol and drug treatment in prison. The paragraph ends with the sentence: Collins also increased the availability of work programmes in prison[6] but tightened up on security measures as well allowing very few prisoners to actually work in the community.[7]

I originally edited the 2nd half of this section off as it didn't have a reference - however I see that Offender9000 has included it again, this time with a reference - to his own book. There has already been considerable discussion about Offender9000's COI in the Justice/Corrections space see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Babakathy/coispace

As a result - I'm going to remove the second half of this sentence again since self-referencing isn't helping get this article back to a balanced NPOV. If someone can provide another reference then we can reinstate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarke43 (talk • contribs) 02:22, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• Offender9000 has just reverted and put the comment plus reference back to his own book. As per WP guidelines the community should decide on this. Comments please? Clarke43 (talk) 07:17, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• Offender9000, I'd be keen to read your book. Do you have a copy that you could make available for free, by any chance? I'm sure that there must be stuff ups that happen during the printing process - that'll be good enough for me. Contact me via Wiki email for my postal address if you can help in that way. Once I've read the book, I would be happy to put the reference into the article, assuming that the book backs up the content. Are other editors ok with that suggestion? Schwede66 08:56, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• Sounded reasonable to me. Clarke43 (talk) 21:22, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• Flying Blind has been endorsed by Sir Geoffrey Palmer, Prof Doug Sellman, Prof Tony Taylor, Dr Ganesh Nana, Peter Williams QC and three judges on the New Zealand Court of Appeal. I really don't think it needs any further endorsement as a reliable source for wikipedia. Offender9000 21:07, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

The page stages that the Judges "...refused to express their view on Flying Blind..." - so perhaps you might like to amend above? How about you make it available as an e-book - then we can all have access to it? I find it amusing that in that article you call for drug courts to be established - which it seems Collins has done (http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz039s-first-alcohol-and-drug-court-launched) - yet you seem to be very quiet about this in Collins achievements section? Clarke43 (talk) 21:22, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• I should add that free copies of Flying Blind were made available to MP's of all political parties. Representatives of each Party accepted - except National - after Judith Collins declined on National's behalf... Now Clarke43 is trying to prevent any quotes being made from the book. What does that suggest about Clarke43....? Offender9000 20:59, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Offender9000, you've just demonstrated again my main objection to you contributing to this article. You have a clear COI. Even the press release you cited immediately above is a press release that you issued. And on reading the press release, it doesn't mention Judith Collins declining. The effect of you consistently loading your own bias into this article is not to change people's views about Judith Collins, which is clearly your intention, but to diminish the authority and credibility of Wikipedia as a neutral encyclopaedic tool. VNTrav (talk) 10:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

That article (and the one linked off it) states that Chester Borrows declined - not Collins? The issue about you and quotes from your book has come up on a number of other WP discussion boards. If I self-published a book saying that the Justice sector was doing a fantastic job and then went around quoting from it on here I'm sure people would be complaining. I have no issue with quotes from the book being used here - if others who have read the book feel it is relevant. I do have issue with you quoting from your own book on here. Clarke43 (talk) 21:22, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• Because you have only recently started editing, you have missed much of the background. Chester Borrow initially agreed to accept copies of Flying Blind on behalf of National but then declined after discussing it with Collins. You are correct that Flying Blind has come up on other discussion boards and the matter was resolved long ago. Other editors are happy for it to be cited as long as the citation does not point to a promotional website. Offender9000 20:17, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Can you post the links to the pages where this has been discussed please? I say again that I have no problem with the book being used as a reference, except where it is used by its author as a reference... Clarke43 (talk) 01:37, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

ACC Privacy

After looking at the paragraphs on the ACC privacy issues - I feel that the majority of the current material should be moved off Collins page since a lot of the material relates to ACC actions - e.g. claimants, ACC going to Police, sending out client details etc rather than the actions/involvement of Collins e.g. requesting incident reports from ACC, appointing new board members, defamation action, initiating culture change via new S&P agreement, issues of confidence in Minister, speculation about her office leaking etc.

I was surprised to see that there is nothing on the ACC page itself about any of these issues - so I'm thinking of moving the non-Collins material over there, perhaps starting a new section... any objections? --Clarke43 (talk) 04:10, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• The ACC privacy issue is the biggest scandal in an agency for which Collins holds a portfolio. She was actively involved in getting rid of the Chairman and a couple of other Board members - and then took a defamation case. The fact that it is not mentioned on the ACC page is no reason to remove it from here. Offender9000 07:21, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

So you agree then that we remove the non-Collins material over to the ACC page, so we can focus on Collins activities relating to the saga on this page? Clarke43 (talk) 07:41, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

As Minister, Collins is ultimately responsible (compare with Kate Wilkinson as Labour Minister and the Pike River Mine disaster), and as such, big scandals do belong to biographies. There's no reason why content couldn't be copied (rather than moved) from this page to others. Schwede66 09:06, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Questions for Clarke43 - COI

In response to a question from Gadfium, you wrote: "I did a fair bit of background reading before putting my hand up to try and get this page edited, because as you noted it is my first time that I have attempted to edit, and it appears to be a fairly intimating community to start getting involved with. I can confirm that that I don't work for Collins or form part of her or the National party electoral organisation. I don't care for Collins one way or another - but want to see a balanced page with multiple contributors unlike it is currently."

What is your interest in Judith Collins? Do you have any COI to declare? You have no edits on any other page on Wikipedia.

What is the relationship between you and NZFC13? Is that one of the three user names mentioned by Gadfium? Offender9000 07:31, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• I think I have already answered the question you pose when I replied to Gadfium. What is your interest in Collins which leads you to put unbalanced edits on this page? Clarke43 (talk) 07:40, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• If I look at your edit history and see that your first 39 edits are all on the Collins article or its talk page, then I also have my doubts. Have a look at the duck test. Schwede66 09:13, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• The fact that you don't work for Collins or form part of her electoral organisation does not mean you don't have a COI. You might be an active member of the National Party, you might be her husband - you might even be Collins herself under a pseudonym - your aggressive approach to editing this page (and no other page on wikipedia) is very similar to her way of doing things. And you haven't answered the question about NZFC13... ? Is that another of your pseudonyms? Offender9000 18:50, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

• I'm not sure what is wrong with having my first 25 (rather than 39?) edits as being on one page? I've already said that I am new and only started editing after seeing just how unbalanced this page is. You will see now that I have started, that I have already started to make some contributions to other pages. I have no COI. My only relationship with NZFC13 is the fact the removal of the edits was the catalyst to getting me involved here.

• Clarke43: Assuming good faith on the part of other editors is a fundamental requirement of wikipedia policy. See WP:AGF Your recent comments have been removed because you made personal attacks. See WP:NPA.Offender9000 20:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

• • Could I please request other editors to review the comments and decide whether they are personal attacks, as I don't believe what I wrote is considered to be such. I note Offender9000 has deleted comments he put up also - including one which he declares he has bias... Clarke43 (talk) 01:37, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Copyviolation

Clarke43, it appears that you will have to read up on Wikipedia's policy on copyright violations, but in short, you cannot just copy and paste material from other websites into Wikipedia. I'll try and fix it for you, as it would appear to be relevant to the article. I could have just removed the copyviolation, but it would have left the rest of the paragraph without context. Here's what the problem is:

Article: "... Collins pushed for an enquiry into the exposure of New Zealand troops to Agent Orange during the Vietnam War."

Source: "A committee of MPs decided today to carry out an inquiry into the exposure of New Zealand troops to Agent Orange during the Vietnam War."

I hope this is useful for you to know. Schwede66 04:52, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Having now read the two sources, I'm struggling how to fix it. It says that the National Party pushed for the inquiry; it doesn't say that it was Collins. She is quoted quite a bit in the article, but it is a bit of a leap to infer from that that it was indeed her who "pushed" for it. The last sentence talks about her having received the "Ex-Vietnam Services Association Pin" for this, but I can't find the fact in the given reference. I shall remove that paragraph for now and I'd be more than happy for you to put the paragraph back, but without copyvio and suitably referenced. Also, have a look how to repeat a reference following the 'referencing for beginners' link that I have given you. Schwede66 05:06, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm a bit confused about the referencing, so will do some reading up on it. With regards to the Agent Orange - I think the best thing to do is use that last ref to support the first paragraph scrapping the current paragraph. The various bios for her about the place include it (and she is held in high regard in the Veterans community due to it) - but I wanted to find something from the media (http://tvnz.co.nz/content/2263155/484445/article.html):

A lawyer, she was elected to the constituency seat of Clevedon in 2002. Her other shadow portfolios are Veterans Affairs and Pacific Island Affairs. She campaigned to force an inquiry into the effect of Agent Orange on Vietnam war veterans and was awarded the Ex-Vietnam Services Association Pin in 2004. Collins has also called for recognition of New Zealand war heroine Nancy Wake. The National contender is deputy chair of parliament's Social Services Select Committee.

I'm trying to figure some 'better' words for the first sentence - I'm struggling as it is a accurate report of what happened, but lets see how I go. How does that sound to you? Clarke43 (talk) 05:26, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Wiri Prison

I've just move the paragraph about the Government awarding a 25 year contact to Serco to build a 960 bed prison at Wiri to Anne Tolleys page. All the references I could find name Anne Tolley as Minister of Corrections who signed off the arrangement and turned the first sod. (http://www.corrections.govt.nz/news-and-publications/wiri_project/related_media_releases.html). Clarke43 (talk) 05:07, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Ongoing NPOV

I think this article needs considerable clean-up. There is a lot of comment in here that is poorly sourced and not NPOV. As it stands it is not a biography, but a thinly-disguised attempt to document in detail every controversy that Collins has been associated with. I am uncomfortable with the assertion that Collins is on "the extreme right". I accept that statement was made by Nicky Hager, but that source is not neutral. Nor is Tapu Misa, who is an opinion columnist, rather than a news reporter. Even the nickname "Crusher Collins", as far as I know, is only used by a far right-wing blog to praise her, and a left-wing blog to attack her. I doubt that she is known widely as "Crusher Collins" by the New Zealand public.

Offender9000 has a clear COI issue in adding citations to self-published works that he has written. VNTrav (talk) 08:08, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I largely disagree with you. I've spent a considerable amount of time working towards a balanced and well-sourced article. If you feel that a particularly source is 'thin', please look up the most appropriate template and tag it accordingly, as we can then meaningfully work towards resolving those issues. You state that the article focusses too much on controversies caused by Collins, but I would maintain that it merely reflects that she causes a lot of controversies. If you feel that this is unbalanced, may I respectfully suggest that you research her achievements and add them to the article? I for one would be all for making the article much more substantial than it already is. Also, please identify specifically what is, in your opinion, not NPOV. Having had another look at the article, the "extreme right" statement may well need to be more closely associated with Hager, or the claim needs to be more solidly sourced. I don't know of Tapu Misa and can't comment on that. I watch news almost exclusively on TV3 and I have heard to Collins being referred as "Crusher Collins" numerous times by their political commentators, so your claim that she would not be widely known by that name is thus incorrect. That said, it may well be that TV1 avoids that term, and that you watch news on that channel only, which could thus explain why you make such a statement. The possible parallel I'm thinking of is TV3's frequent use of "Beast of Blenheim"; I wasn't aware that Stewart Murray Wilson isn't referred to by his nickname on TV1 until I read of the complaint that had been made to the ombudsman about TV3's use of that term. Schwede66 17:53, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Schwede66, I should say that my principal concerns with the article, on reflection, are the edits made by Offender9000. The balance of my concerns are that, as you've clarified, the weight given to controversies, the claims made by controversial sources, and whether the fact that a commentator from either the Left or Right makes a claim about a politician is a notable event.

I agree that it's not constructive for me to simply assert a general concern with the tone of the article. So I will start with being specific. "After 15 years of Labour Party membership, she changed her allegiance to the National Party in 1990, and is now regarded as being on the extreme right of National." Is it sufficiently critical to Collins' biography or character that she was a Labour Party member, that this should be included in the summary? As far as I know, she wasn't a Labour Party activist or prominent in the Labour Party. It would be useful to include in a section on her early life, but in my view it is not a sufficiently prominent event in her life to be included in the first paragraph. And the claim that she is on "the extreme right" of National is completely subjective. I'm quite sure if you were to ask Nicky Hager who else was on the "extreme right" of National, he would list half of the National Party caucus. Just because you may agree with Hager's view in this respect doesn't make it an objective statement. In my view, it is fair to say that Collins is on the right in National's caucus, as opposed to, for example, Nick Smith, or even John Key, but I believe that most mainstream, neutral political commentators would dispute that there even is an "extreme Right" within the National Party caucus.

On the issue of "Crusher Collins", on reflection I agree that the nickname is notable, as she is referred to as such by both her closest supporters and most ardent detractors, but in my view it is not sufficiently notable to be included in the summary.

"She has a reputation for tough talking and stands out for the confidence that she has in herself." In my view, this is an entirely subjective statement, particularly the latter half of the statement. In my view that she "stands out for the confidence that she has in herself" has pejorative intent. VNTrav (talk) 01:41, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I've checked the references and these don't state Collins was a member of the Labour party - merely a supporter, as a result I've edited out those details which claim she was a member. I agree about the Hager "far right" reference - and have removed it from the the opening paragraph - as other than the Hager reference I can't find anything which says she is "far right" - it seems very subjective? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clarke43 (talk • contribs) 07:44, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Flying Blind

I'm currently reading this book and it doesn't talk on page 72 about Collins having "tightened up on security measures as well, allowing very few prisoners to actually work in the community". Do I have a different edition (no edition number is stated, so I'm assuming my version is first edition)? Or was the page number wrong, and I should have to look somewhere else? Either way, I've removed Flying Blind as a reference for the time being. Schwede66 08:46, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Schwede, not sure how that happened - try page 129. Offender9000 06:46, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm not quite that far with the book, but will tend to it when I get there. Schwede66 18:29, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

COI tag

I've invited User:FreeRangeFrog to outline here why he or she has placed this tag. I don't think it's justified, but rather than remove it again, I'd be interested to hear the rationale for this first. Schwede66 20:52, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Jc press sec (talk · contribs) has extensively edited this article, as well as attempting to scrub other articles of criticism about Collins. Until we determine what exactly "jc press sec" means (not that it requires much imagination) and the user's edits to this and other related topics are scrutinized, we need to maintain the COI tag. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 20:58, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

User:Jc press sec has made exactly four edits to the article, and they were all related to changing the profile photo and amending the caption. This was asked for; see above. See in the same location a COI declaration. Leaving aside what this user has done to other articles, why exactly do you see a need to place a COI tag with this article? Schwede66 21:18, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

We place tags first, then we figure out what's going on. Looking at the contributions, I see they are harmless so I'll remove the tag. However, WP:COI is clear about how this works: They request the edits, and we perform them if appropriate. Allowing this politician's press secretary to edit the page is inappropriate at best, no matter how harmless the changes. As for the person's chosen username, that's entirely another matter and irrelevant to the COI issue, and not at all something they can ignore just because they've told us who they are. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 21:35, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the removal of the COI tag. I agree that it's best for Jc press sec not to edit this page at all, however harmless the edits may be. To that end, Jc press sec, please post any edit requests on the talk page. Schwede66 02:32, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the guidance. In my defence, the actions of the editor who placed the COI tag are totally uncalled for and very damaging for no reason. He or she has stated that I "extensively edited this article..." without checking either the edits or my clearly declared COI, and despite this editor knowing about edits I made to the David Bain page and why I made them (removal of defamatory (not harmless) material in accordance with Wikipedia's own policy) as I clearly posted on the WP:BLP noticeboard and asked for help there, he or she has also said "...as well as attempting to scrub other articles of criticism about Collins". This is completely incorrect and untrue. Making such accusations where there is no evidence to support it is hardly the action I would expect of an editor. I fully understand that it is inappropriate for me to edit this page due to my already fully declared COI, and I have been very clear about this. Generally it's better to establish the facts first. As for the username issue, I am happy to change it, as I have stated elsewhere, but I will create another account so as to avoid this username being misused. Jc press sec (talk) 02:13, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

No, don't create another user name. Follow the link that I posted onto your talk page; that will lead you to the page where you request a change of user name. You cannot (and should not) create more than one user name. Nobody will be able to "misuse" your existing name because that will continue to exist on the system. Schwede66 02:20, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't plan to have more than one user name. I was planning to retire this user name and create another account, because the guidance on the WP:CHU page says "Once you have been renamed, your old account name will no longer exist and could be recreated by a third party. To guard against impersonation, you may wish to recreate the old account yourself and make redirects." I thought I could avoid that potential by retiring this one and creating another account? Jc press sec (talk) 02:43, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

No, you apply to have your user name changed. Once that's done, you can then redirect your old user name (I didn't know that detail). Schwede66 06:57, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Minister of Corrections Section

I've edited the paragraph about Mount Eden down as it isn't accurate in relation to a biography on Collins. Collins wasn't Minister of Corrections at the time the prison was designed, but did oversee its completion and appoint private management. There was no reference for Collins believing the viability of the prison has a deterrent effect and the quote about the belief of getting caught and punished looks to be taken out of context because she also makes many more comments in the same speech about breaking the cycle of offending and not locking people up as being the answer.

Likewise with the detail that people seem to keep wanting to add on the smoking ban. What is important is that she announced it and that it has been legally challenged but the department kept the ban in place. The detail of those legal challenges, who is doing the challenges and other goings on in present time to keep the ban in place don't warrant mention on the Collins page - it is meant to be encyclopaedic biographical entry on her. It should go either on the Corrections page or perhaps the current Corrections Minister if they are directly involved. Clarke43 (talk) 18:45, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Robert KEE

After reviewing the referenced article (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10861503) about this paragraph I've removed it. The NZ Herald article states while he was not the preferred candidate, that none-the-less Kee was one of two candidates recommended to Collins for the job by an independent panel, and confirms that while they were known to each other, they were all lawyers in a small community, so this is not unusual. As a result, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly striking in this ministerial appointment. Clarke43 (talk)

Its called cronyism - and is a form of political corruption. Offender9000 (talk) 12:14, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

"Concerns were also raised about Ms Collins' judgement when it was revealed that she had appointed Auckland barrister Robert Kee to the position of Director of Human Rights Proceedings - with a salary of $200,000 a year. Mr Kee is a friend of her husband's. Ms Collins chose Mr Kee for the job against the advice of officials who had recommended someone else.[35]"

I see Offender9000 has restored the above paragraph, with no changes or edits to improve the quality, therefore I plan on removing it again as it seems completely inaccurate and not worthy on an encyclopaedic entry on Collins due to the following reasons:

• Concerns were raised. By whom? One journalist, with the story quickly dying.
• The salary isn't relevant on a page about Collins.
• How can it be cronyism when an independent panel recommended him as one of two possible candidates and it was never proven that Collins and KEE socialise? Also it is a ministerial appointment. As I understand there is no process that must be followed - Ministers from all parties when making such appointments can and do appoint whoever they see fit.
• Just because it has a reference doesn't mean it is worthy of a place on a page.

Clarke43 (talk) 04:21, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

• Since no one has come back with any objections I have removed it for reasons presented above. Clarke43 (talk) 05:20, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

This material was an obvious, and very serious, violation of the core policy WP:BLP. The article given as a reference did not note anyone as raising concerns about Ms Collins' judgement at all. One person was identified as saying only that he thought that the relationship between the two people should be public knowledge. Nick-D (talk) 07:57, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Reputation

I've removed this sentence from the reputation section: Following her decision to peer review Judge Binnie's compensation report on David Bain, businessman Sir Bob Jones commented that Collins' behaviour displayed "breath-taking arrogance without precedence" and suggested she was unfit to be Minister of Justice.

This is an exception claim which should therefore be backed up with exceptional sources (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Attribution#Exceptional_claims_require_exceptional_sources). It has been up here for sometime now, yet the only basis for the sentence is one primary source opinion piece, which really doesn't stack up when making the serious suggestion that she is unfit to be Min Justice. Clarke43 (talk) 21:40, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

This is hardly an exceptional claim. Its fits her entirely. Offender9000 (talk) 19:59, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Material not supported by source removed

I've just removed two claims not supported by the sources given. The first was some editorializing claiming that "softer policing" may have caused the crime rate to drop rather than the "tough" approach Collins was attributing this to. The news story did not contain this contrast at all, and does not even mention the crime rate, so this was pure WP:SYNTH. I also tweaked some wording here which was presenting some of the views of one academic without proper attribution to him (they were being presented as a fact rather than an opinion), and which left out the fact that he was attributing the decline to changing demographics and better security measures, and not just demographics. In regards to the other claim, the article claimed that Collins "raised controversy" by appointing Dame Susan Devoy as the Race Relations Commissioner: the source provided for this does not note any controversy whatsoever, saying only that Ms Devoy's views "may raise eyebrows". As I noted above, this article falls under WP:BLP, and including negative material about a person based on misrepresenting sources or WP:SYNTH is a significant breach of this. Nick-D (talk) 08:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC)