Template talk:Capital cities of European Union member states

Local names

I changed Warsaw from the Polish to the English because, few people know the Polish name. none of the other cities.

Bucharest and Sofia

Until Romania and Bulgaria have joined the EU, which they will do on 1st January, Bucharest and Sofia are not capital cities within the EU. One new user insists on adding them since there are only 30 days left until they accede. However, there is no window of opportunity here. Nothing will happen to this template to prevent editing it after the accession of Romania and Bulgaria. Hence, they can be added when it's true, not when it's convenient to do so. Besides, there will be hundreds of Romanians and Bulgarians happy to add them on the stroke of midnight. Bastin 14:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Bastin, your revertion is rather unnecessary. Most EU-related articles are already being updated to reflect the changes due in roughly 70 hours. Kroum 05:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Fortunately, you don't have long to wait. Only 60 hours left. If you (and others; the 'discussion' above was deleted for no apparent reason) want to predict the future, you might enjoy claiming that Saddam Hussein is dead. After all, he's going to die pretty soon (sooner than the New Year, if this military source is to be believed). That, of course, just means that we have little to lose by waiting just a few short hours until he's actually doing the Tyburn jig. Or Romania and Bulgaria join the EU. Bastin 13:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

The comparison to Saddam's execution is silly, but have it your way. Kroum 16:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Cardiff, Belfast and Edinburgh

I am unsure as to whether these city's should be on this list as Wales, NI and Scotland are constituents of the UK whose capital is London. The UK as a whole is a member state of the EU, Wales, NI and Scotland are not. Johnskitt 01:05, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

You're right; they shouldn't have been included. Only countries' capitals are supposed to be included. I have reverted this. Bastin 01:14, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Erm don't know how good your english is ... Scotland, Wales and England are countries. What you mean is sovereign independent states, which is just one of several meanings given to the word country. The word was about long before the world got neatly divided into sovereign states. Anyways, as the template just says Capital cities of the European Union, the definition is open enough to include cities such as Edinburgh and Cardiff. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 04:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, and the next time I add 16 capitals of German Bundesländer plus Barcelona! Stop your unbased edits. Lear 21 22:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's very common in English to refer to the 16 cities which function as capitals of the German Bundesländer as "capitals", since these aren't normally regarded - rightly or wrongly - as "countries" in English. As long as the template says "Capital cities of the European Union", there's no reason not to add Cardiff and Edinburgh ... or Belfast; not sure about Barcelona, but if you can find it being referred to commonly as a "capital", then feel free to add it. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 23:21, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

babe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.33.113.55 (talk) 16:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Cardiff, Belfast and Edinburgh (2008)

I have reverted the edit, Cardiff, Belfast and Edinburgh are regional capitals. London is the capital city of the UK. There are probably hundreds of regional capitals within the EU that were previously sovereign states, the point however is that Edinburgh, for example, will only be a capital city of the EU, if Scotland decides that it wishes to be independent from the UK, and not before! Seth Whales (talk) 22:25, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are not counties, regions or states of the UK. Therefore they cannot be compared to Germany for example. They are constituent countries of the UK, albeit not independent. Cardiff, Belfast and Edinburgh must be given special consideration. Cardiff, for example, is often refered to as the youngest European capital (made capital in 1955) [1]. Also here are a couple of sources citing the cities as European Capitals [2][3]. WL (talk) 23:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Cardiff is the capital of Wales (100%), but Wales is not the state/country which is represented in the EU, the UK is and as such London is the capital city. Seth Whales (talk) 09:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Well to be fair, the name of the template isn't Capital cities of member states of the EU. WL (talk) 13:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

That is true, but I would only be happy if all the capital cities of the European Union were included, not just the regional capitals of the UK...for instance the States of Germany, Regional Capitals of Sweden, etc. etc. I believe the name of Template implies Capital cities of member states of the EU, otherwise it would get too cumbersome. Seth Whales (talk) 14:28, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

With respect, what may be implied to you may not be implied to something else. An encyclopaedia is not about implications.

Also as I've said before, Wales/Scotland/N. Ireland are not regions or states. They are unique in that sense. Maybe we could create a new sub-section with capital cities of say German states and Swedish regions including all the EU'ssub-capitals.WL (talk) 01:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Flag

What does and have proofed useful in terms of quick orientation) mean ? Gnevin (talk) 23:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Flags are standard features among templates and are useful in terms of quick visual orientation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.8.49 (talk) 13:48, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

How so? Gnevin (talk) 17:59, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Have you ever seen a movie without pictures? Read a newsmagazine without images, graphics? Shown somebody your flat while he/she is blindfolded? No ?

Visual orientation is used in every dimension of communication, so it is here. Lear 21 (talk) 16:18, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

You haven't said how a flag helps orientation .Given the fact many people won't know what the flag represents and the fact this flag could be replicated many times on a flag on different templates . I don't see their is anyway in which this provides orientation . So I'll ask again , how does this flag provide a means of orientation over plain text? Gnevin (talk) 17:24, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

The template is about capital cities in the EU. So obviously the flag supports this message, by helping our readers to visualize what the content of the template will be. Why do you want to remove it in the first place? Tomeasy _{T C} 09:47, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Because many people don't not know the flag represents and secondly words are always clearer as per WP:FlagsGnevin (talk) 19:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Nobody wanted to remove the words, but those who recognize the flag will understand the content of the template faster or easier than without.

I still do not see why you are against the use of the flag? Are you also against using the Irish flag on Irish templates, just because many people do not know the Irish flag? I guess, and hope you would agree, that the EU flag is more broadly known than the Irish one.

Do not get me wrong, I do not think that this popularity issue is the point here. I just replied to it, because it seems to be a point for you. Tomeasy _{T C} 20:50, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes i am we don't need to decorate . The EU would clearly but more known but that doesn't mean everyone will know it and so the visual orientation idea goes out the window. Gnevin (talk) 11:07, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, may I ask you to rephrase your comment. I really do not understand what you are trying to say. It would also help if you read your own comments before you post them. Tomeasy _{T C} 11:34, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes I am against the usage of the Irish flag on Irish templates, we don't need to decorate . The EU flag would clearly be more known than the Irish one but that doesn't mean everyone will know it and so the visual orientation idea goes out the window. Gnevin (talk) 12:13, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying.

So you are generally against flags to support the scope of a template, because some people might not know the flag. Would that also apply to a template "Major cities of the United States", perhaps the most commonly recognized flag of the world? Or is there somewhere a threshold for recognition in your model, beyond which you say "this flag might be used"? Tomeasy _{T C} 12:35, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Not only because people might not know it but the flag doesn't add any encyclopaedic information, they are purely decoration in the context of nav templates. United States conveys the same information as United States. This has been discussed several times at WP:MOSICON and it is my experience some people will ignore the guideline no matter what and keep the pretty flags . Gnevin (talk) 13:08, 23 November 2008 (UTC)