Design Thread: Magic Find [March 17th Update]

[Zodiac90]

I don't think this can happen soon enough

foraging update vibes xD

 

[EmiliaRage]

foraging update vibes xD

Real. I hope it'll be a little quicker than foraging though. A lot of it is backend numbers stuff and the new content would be all the pet perk reworks. Not expecting anything like immedietly but hopefully it can be this year...? I don't know how difficult it would be to change the MF equation.

 

[DogeDev]

I don't think this can happen soon enough. MF is in such a weird state where for certain sections in every type of content, having an optimized MF setup is required. Scathas for mining, valuable sea creatures for fishing, all general combat content, etc. They all need a magic find setup to swap to. It breaks up progression significantly. The main items needed are highly expensive items, and many come from Diana, an event that is not always around. It breaks up the progression of any skill. Scathas are my particular pet peeve. I really want to grind for a scatha, since it's the best mining pet for most scenarios, but it feels like a huge waste to do so without an expensive pet with an expensive pet item with an expensive weapon with an absurdly expensive enchant.

I do think this is a very good and neccessary rework to have for all players. Even if all you want to do is mine, you're stuck getting a hyperspecific combat setup just to maximize the chance of getting certain things you want (of course you could just buy the item you want i.e Scatha, but that's not ideal to incentivize.) And even once you have this setup, is it really fun to have to manually swap accessories, armor, and rod swap to MF pet? I think it would make the experience better for everyone if that wasn't required.

The literal only downsides I see are the loss of value in the items. MF being essential is why Chimera is where it is in price. A lot of these items are going to need even more sigificant buffs than proposed to maintain anywhere near the level of value.

So in short, you're cooking with this one, I hope we see it implemented ASAP.

Ah yes lets destroy Diana / fishing / slayer economy because you can't get scathas or rather you don't wanna grind scathas.

 

[EmiliaRage]

Ah yes lets destroy Diana / fishing / slayer economy because you can't get scathas or rather you don't wanna grind scathas.

It's not just scathas, it's just that magic find swapping is not a fun thing to have to do and it's annoying to need to have a whole setup just for certain specific parts of the game that are otherwise in their own skills. Having items be BIS for content they aren't even for because magic find is a terrible system is the issue. It's certainly not that I don't want to grind scathas, it's just that it was annoying that I had to buy a whole setup that's only purpose is to be swapped to when I kill things for magic find. That doesn't feel very intuitive or good for the game. I'd like to just be able to progress a skill without needing to drop billions for stuff I ONLY need for magic find and nothing else. Especially since I don't even do much of the content where MF swapping is useful.

Also, it's not gonna destroy any economy EXCEPT Diana too bad to do this. And they are literally buffing all the items that are currently good for magic find to make them good properly. I also said in the reply they need to do that even more extensively to maintain the value of these items. I think you can fix MF without breaking the economy too bad. And Magic Find is currently just in a terrible state, and it has to be changed. It's a weird detour to have to take on otherwise well designed skills.

 

[DogeDev]

it feels like a huge waste to do so without an expensive pet with an expensive pet item with an expensive weapon with an absurdly expensive enchant.

Yes swapping IS annoying and it's something everyone agrees on but I sincerely disagree with this specific line.
We are on skyblock, if you don't wanna grind then don't ruin it for those who did grind.

 

[EmiliaRage]

Yes swapping IS annoying and it's something everyone agrees on but I sincerely disagree with this specific line.
We are on skyblock, if you don't wanna grind then don't ruin it for those who did grind.

The point is it feels like you're wasting time and effort if you do content that utilizes MF swapping without an MF setup.

What does the current system incentivize? It incentivizes people on normal profiles to not buy a MF setup, and instead to just buy the scatha, buy the rare drop, buy whatever else. It's best to not even DO the content. Why should you spend more money to access the grind than you would have used to just skip it? I was actively choosing to want to grind for these things but the price tag on doing that is higher than just buying the items straight up!

Also, this is like people saying "I suffered through it, so you should too." I don't think it's a valid argument to say that future players should suffer through getting a magic find setup just because you did.

 

[DogeDev]

The point is it feels like you're wasting time and effort if you do content that utilizes MF swapping without an MF setup.

What does the current system incentivize? It incentivizes people on normal profiles to not buy a MF setup, and instead to just buy the scatha, buy the rare drop, buy whatever else. It's best to not even DO the content. Why should you spend more money to access the grind than you would have used to just skip it? I was actively choosing to want to grind for these things but the price tag on doing that is higher than just buying the items straight up!

Also, this is like people saying "I suffered through it, so you should too." I don't think it's a valid argument to say that future players should suffer through getting a magic find setup just because you did.

Just play ironman if you don't like the economy!!!

 

[SoDarnCute]

can we also compensate reforges like renowned or items like superior dragon armor with little buffs in order to differentiate them from their less rare variants like dragon scale(spiked) and the other dragon armors?
in regards to habanero tactics, habanero tactics is currently cost prohibitive for most players to put on all possible slayer setups, this will probably result in players putting habanero tactics on a single set - like crimson, and then swapping to it from their other slayer sets to kill the boss, or using crimson exclusively for slayers, which is bad for build variety, making the other dedicated slayer armors completely useless.
I think habanero should provide value for slayers, I'm just not sure it should be magic find, as habanero tactics seems to me to be the most conditional of all magic finds.

 

[BudBud3280]

This is why they created Overbloom.

 

[mrkugelblitz]

can we also compensate reforges like renowned or items like superior dragon armor with little buffs in order to differentiate them from their less rare variants like dragon scale(spiked) and the other dragon armors?
in regards to habanero tactics, habanero tactics is currently cost prohibitive for most players to put on all possible slayer setups, this will probably result in players putting habanero tactics on a single set - like crimson, and then swapping to it from their other slayer sets to kill the boss, or using crimson exclusively for slayers, which is bad for build variety, making the other dedicated slayer armors completely useless.
I think habanero should provide value for slayers, I'm just not sure it should be magic find, as habanero tactics seems to me to be the most conditional of all magic finds.

you're meant to use crimson armour for all slayers as its the ultimate slayer setup (which is what its intended for)
hab tac is hardly conditional when its the best slayer enchant on the best slayer gear, no need to put it on anything else or swap to anything else

 

[mkbc63]

Spoiler: March 17th Update

Hey everyone! It's been a while since we released this thread, and we've since taken the time to comb through all of your feedback. Due to the immensely positive reception to the proposal, we are glad to announce that we now have a Magic Find Rework entering the development stage.

Our plan from here on out is to develop this update (duh), which will take some time, before putting it on the Alpha Network for a prolonged testing session that will allow us to implement key feedback as well as address any concerns. Our hope is that this slow and steady approach will be key to making this update as healthy as it possibly can be. As the update contains changes to most Magic Find items alongside a rewrite of every MF-affected drop table, the development phase will take a while, but we're excited to share this with you soon.

Thanks for all of your feedback!

Hello!

Today we would like to take some time to talk about the future of Magic Find in Hypixel SkyBlock.

Since its inception, Magic Find has been one of the most exciting and impactful stats in the game but, over the years, as more and more sources of the stat have been added, it has evolved to become quite problematic. Not only does Magic Find have a means of optimisation that we deem to be unhealthy, unintuitive, and disruptive to gameplay flow, but the inflation of the stat is the overwhelming reason as to why base drop rates are so low across the board - and we'd like to change that.

Nothing is set in stone yet - the purpose of this thread is to present you, the community, with our concept for a "Magic Find Revamp" update that would make some foundational changes to Magic Find as a stat, and to gather your feedback on our proposal. We know Magic Find is a touchy topic, and as a result we have probably been putting this discussion off for far too long, which we apologize for, but, without further ado, let's get into it.

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► Update Pillars

We have internally established that any update to the Magic Find system would need to satisfy the following four pillars in order to positively affect the game's player-base in the long term:

1. Substantially increase the base drop chances of Magic Find-affected drops across the game.
   1. Mayor Aura showed us just how accessible and enjoyable the game can be for newer players/returning players if base drop-rates are a bit higher. While Aura did this by giving all players a base amount of Magic Find, we'd instead like to do this by simply increasing the base drop rates of MF-affected items, as higher drop rates are less daunting for everyone and more intuitive than drop rates being low but everyone having some base Magic Find.
2. Reduce the amount of Magic Find in the game.
   1. With base drop rates being significantly higher, there is less of a need for copious amounts of Magic Find. Less sources of the stat will translate to it being easier to obtain in large amounts with our proposed rework, with it no longer being primarily obtained through items costing hundreds of millions.
3. Eliminate the need for Magic Find swaps.
   1. Swapping is downtime - let's get rid of it and make gameplay smoother! Less time swapping to your Magic Find setup means more burrows/hour, sea creature catches/hour, and so on. The goal here is for players to not feel they're missing out on possible rare drops when playing content in the gear that was designed for it.
4. Make Magic Find as intuitive as possible.
   1. This pillar is trifold:
      1. Move sources of Magic Find from active sources, such as Armor, Equipment, Reforges, Enchantments, to passive, "set and forget" sources that you will never need to adjust, such as SkyBlock Levels, Attributes, and Accessories. Currently, it feels bad to kill a mob in the current game just to remember you forget to min-max your Magic Find.
      2. Rework Looting to give flat Magic Find. Looting's current functionality raises many questions pertaining to how it functions and interactions with other systems (such as Automaton Parts - which our proposal fixes).
      3. Compensate for Looting no longer multiplying drops such as Jungle Keys and Corleonite by allowing Magic Find to increase the drop chances of ALL items, instead of just those with an under 5% drop rate. Overflow applies in the same way as a Fortune stat, e.g a final drop chance of 160% means you're guaranteed 1 of the item with a 60% chance of a 2nd.

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► The Pillars in Action: Proposed Changes

So, with the four pillars above in mind, let's delve into what new drop rates across the game could look like following a proposed Magic Find Revamp. For this exercise, we'll take one of the most valuable drops from each of the Sea Creatures native to the Backwater Bayou, and compare old Magic Find affected drop-rates to the proposed new ones.

First, let's take a look at the current drop table, and how rates are being affected by Magic Find & Looting for our two friends, ► Player A and ► Player B.

Spoiler: Current Drop Rates

► Current Drop Rates

Drop Name	Old Base Chance	► Player A (300 MF, L4)	► Player B (450 MF, L5)
Can of Worms	20%	32% (Only affected by Looting)	35% (Only affected by Looting)
Bronze Bowl	4.5%	7.2% (Looting pushes it out of MF range)	8.75% (Looting pushes it out of MF range)
Calcified Heart	1%	6.4%	9.6%
Enchanted Slime Block	0.5%	3.2%	4.8%
Alligator Skin	100%	160% (1 Guaranteed, 60% for 2)	175% (1 Guaranteed, 75% for 2)
Titanoboa Shed	0.2%	1.28%	1.93%

With the current rates listed above, let's now compare them to the proposed new ones. Remember that the new system you're about to see below aligns with the pillars listed at the top of the thread, meaning it raises base drop chances, lowers the maximum amount of Magic Find while looking to remove the need to MF swap, and makes the stat more intuitive by making Looting give flat Magic Find + allowing for Magic Find to affect ALL drops (and overflow as if it were a Fortune), instead of only applying those under 5%.

Factoring in all of the above, this is how the Backwater Bayou drops what look for ► Player C and ► Player D, who are playing in our hypothetical post-update world.

Spoiler: New Drop Rates Proposal

► New Drop Rates Proposal

Drop Name	New Base Chance	► Player C Chance (100 MF)	► Player D Chance (150 MF)
Can of Worms	20% (Unchanged)	40%	50%
Bronze Bowl	5%	10%	12.5%
Calcified Heart	2.5%	5%	6.25%
Enchanted Slime Block	2%	4%	5%
Alligator Skin	75%	150% (1 Guaranteed, 50% for 2)	187.5% (1 Guaranteed, 87.5% for 2)
Titanoboa Shed	1%	2%	2.5%

As you can see when comparing the two tables, the proposed new system, which ► Player C and ► Player D are playing under, is noticeably more beneficial - they are generally equally or more likely to get common drops, such as the Can of Worms and Alligator Skin, and always more likely to get rare drops, such as the Enchanted Slime Block and Titanoboa Shed, than their ► Player A and ► Player B counterparts.

Additionally, it is worth comparing just how difficult it is for both sets of players to obtain their listed amounts of Magic Find under their respective systems. Let's compare ► Player A and ► Player C and assume they're both killing the same mob - a Titanoboa. You might expect their sources of Magic Find to look something like this:

Spoiler: Comparison Table

► Comparison Table

► Player A's Magic Find Setup (300 MF, L4)	► Player C's Magic Find Setup (100 MF)
Looting 4 (1.6x multiplier to base drop chance)	Looting 4 (+20 Magic Find)
God Potion / Magic Find Tier IV Potion (+75 Magic Find)	God Potion / Magic Find Tier IV Potion (+20 Magic Find)
Level 200 Golden Dragon Pet (+30 Magic Find)	Booster Cookie (+20 Magic Find)
Hephaestus Relic on Golden Dragon Pet (+15 Magic Find)	33% Complete Titanoboa Bestiary (+15 Magic Find)
Chimera V Ultimate Enchantment (+45 Magic Find)	SkyBlock Levels (+10 Magic Find at SBLVL 200)
100% Complete Titanoboa Bestiary (+45 Magic Find)	Cinderbat Attribute (+5 Magic Find)
Sorrow Armor Full Set (+20 Magic Find)	Magic Find Profile Upgrade (+5 Magic Find)
Booster Cookie (+15 Magic Find)	100 Pet Score (+5 Magic Find)
450 Pet Score (+12 Magic Find)
Slayer Energy Drink (+10 Magic Find)
Rift Necklace (+8 Magic Find)
Magic Find Profile Upgrade (+5 Magic Find)
Private Island Beacon T5 w/ Scorched Crystal (+6 MF)
Cinderbat Attribute (+5 Magic Find)
Jerry Candy (+3 Magic Find)
Anguish Artifact (+3 Magic Find)
David's Cloak (+2 Magic Find)
Renowned Reforge*4 (1.04x multiplier to final magic find)
Total: +310~ Magic Find -> 1.3~% chance to get Titanoboa Shed.	Total: +100 MF -> 2% chance to get Titanoboa Shed.

As illustrated above, ► Player C is able to obtain higher drop-rates than ► Player A without needing to swap out any aspects of their setup (armor, pet, weapon, etc.), whereas ► Player A is...

• Pet-locked to Golden Dragon w/ Hephaestus Relic
• Necklace-locked to Rift Necklace
• Cloak-locked to David's Cloak
• Armor-locked to Sorrow Armor w/ Renowned Reforge
• Item-locked to their Chimera V Weapon

Before they can go back to fishing upon killing the Titanoboa, ► Player A needs to revert back to their fishing setup whereas ► Player C can simply cast their rod again, maintaining the intended gameplay flow.

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► Proposed Sources of Magic Find, Post-Rework

So, where would ► Player C and ► Player D be getting all of their Magic Find from in the new system? Let's take a look.

When viewing the tables attached below, we encourage you to look at every 1 Magic Find through the lens of "Increases your chance of getting rare drops by 1% across the entire game" - this better emphasises just how strong the stat is than simply seeing the word "Magic Find".

Spoiler: Proposed Sources of Unconditional Magic Find

► Proposed Sources of Unconditional Magic Find

All of the following sources of Magic Find are what we consider to be "set and forget", meaning that the most you'll ever have to do with them is remember to top them up every now and then by eating another Booster Cookie, consuming another God Potion, etc.

Source	Amount
Anguish Artifact	+3
Booster Cookie	+20
Bucket of Dye	+1
Century Cake of the Next Dungeon Floor	+1
Cinderbat Attribute	+5
Diana's Bookshelf	+1
Divine Gift	+5, adjusted to be a consumable that grants permanent stats instead of an enchantment.
God Potion / Magic Find IV Potion	+20
Magic Find Account Upgrades	+5
Necron's Ladder	+1
Pet Score	+1-13, based upon total pet score.
Private Island Beacon	+5 (+6 w/ Scorched Power Crystal)
Hatcessories (Now just accessories - not hatcessories)	+1
Pulse Ring (Maxed)	+1
SkyBlock Levels	+1 every 20 SkyBlock Levels

Spoiler: Proposed Sources of Conditional Magic Find

► Proposed Sources of Conditional Magic Find

"Conditional" Magic Find refers to sources of the stat that will only activate under certain conditions. This typically refers to sources of the stat that are only active on certain content, that need to be manually used on a per-kill basis, or that are time-gated behind certain Mayor Perks.

Our design methodology behind conditional Magic Find is that we will attach it to items/pets/etc. that we want to encourage players to use in a certain sector of the game. To name a few:

• The Griffin Pet is the only pet you can use for the Mythological Ritual, so it gives Magic Find on ✿ Mythological mobs.
• Bobbin' Time is Fishing's dedicated Ultimate Enchantment for Armor, so the Magic Find (and Tracking) it grants only applies to Sea Creatures.

Source	Amount
Bestiary	Up to +75 (Tier 25) on mobs in the Bestiary.
Bobbin' Time V	Now grants +1% all Fishing Stats, +1 Magic Find and +1 Tracking on Sea Creatures per nearby fishing player (up to 5).
Crown of Avarice	Up to +10 ✿ Mythological mobs.
Crown of Greed	+5 on ✿ Mythological mobs.
Diana's Favor III (Carnival Shop Perk)	+3 on ✿ Mythological mobs.
Extremely Real Shuriken	+5 on Tagged mob.
Four-eyed Fish	+5 on ✿ Mythological mobs.
Griffin Pet's "King of Kings" Perk	+10 on ✿ Mythological mobs.
Habanero Tactics V	+5 on Slayer Bosses when killed with a Slayer Weapon.
Hound Pet's "Finder" Perk (Renamed to "Mad Dog"	+20 on Sven Packmaster. We won't be doing this ^. New effect TBD.
Lava Flame Attribute	+5 on ♆ Magmatic mobs.
Looting/Chance/Luck Enchantments (Merged - can be applied to Swords/Bows/Rods/Pickaxes)	Up to +25 Magic Find.
"Lord's Blessing" Tiered Bonus on Magma Lord Armor + Gauntlet (5/5)	+5 on ♆ Magmatic mobs.
Mayor Aatrox's "Pathfinder" Perk	+10
Mayor Jerry's "Statspocalypse" Perk	+10%
Megalodon Pet's "Blood Scent" Perk	+10 on Sharks.
Minotaur Attribute	+5 on ✿ Mythological mobs.
Nutcracker Armor's "Batallion" Full Set Bonus	Up to +10 on ❆ Frozen mobs (becomes Tiered Bonus).
Spider/Tarantula Pet's "Web Battlefield" Perk	+20 on Tarantula Broodfather. We won't be doing this ^. New effect TBD.
Wolf Fur Mixin	+5 on Slayer Bosses.

Spoiler: Proposed Removed Sources of Magic Find

► Proposed Removed Sources of Magic Find

Many of the following items that gave Magic Find were quite restrictive to build variety or extremely niche in nature. All of the items listed below would longer give any Magic Find under our new system, though many of them have been reworked to fit into a new niche. You may find the name of each former source on the left, along with a designer explanation to the right.

Please note that the below is not final and is subject to change, hence why this is a design thread. Nothing below is currently in the development phase.

Removed Source	Action Taken	Designer Notes
Annihilation Cloak	Removed base MF.	Getting rid of anything that would encourage equipment swaps.
Black Cat Pet	Not Fully Decided Yet.	If any pet keeps its base Magic Find, it will remain BiS for all activities. A focal point of the update to prevent swapping and the petlocking evoked by Gdrag's insane amount of Magic Find is to remove the stat from all pets, regardless of how good or bad it is on them. So, we will be removing Black Cat's "Supernatural" perk, but we haven't yet decided what would replace it.
Blaze Pet	"Nether Embodiment" now only increases Combat Stats.	To avoid players becoming petlocked to Blaze Pet while in the Crimson Isle. It maintains a niche when used in combination with Frozen Blaze armor.
Clover Helmet	Not Fully Decided Yet.	Shen items became a misstep in design when they ended up becoming BiS items worth tens of billions of coins instead of fun meme items that served as a coin sink for the economy. We haven't yet decided upon what to do with Clover Helmet and are open to ideas. Current concepts for you to chew on: 1) Becomes a toggleable accessory that grants +5 MF but -5% all other stats. Main issue with this is that the item would then become needed for max SBXP, which we don't want to do while it's still in Shen's. 2) Becomes a helmet used for something else. We have a number of updates coming out, some introducing new stats - this could see a use there. It is entirely possible to roll the MF revamp and revisit this item later, since it is not a widespread, widely available swap like Sorrow.
David's Cloak	Removed Magic Find base stat.	"The BiS Hunting & Foraging Cloak doesn't also need MF to make it BiS for other activities" was a commonly-seen sentiment upon Galatea's release, and we agree wholeheartedly.
Delirium Cloak	Removed Magic Find base stat.	Getting rid of anything that would encourage equipment swaps.
Destruction Cloak	Removed Magic Find base stat.	Getting rid of anything that would encourage equipment swaps.
Dragon Horn	"Renowned Bonus" now only increases Combat Stats.	Renowned is currently BiS for Magic Find due to it increasing your final MF stat by up to 1.04x. In order to prevent armor swaps the Dragon Horn needs to no longer affect MF.
Ender Dragon Pet	"Superior" now only increases Combat Stats.	Yes, there is a trend here with many items from The End loving to increase Magic Find by a %, which is really where a lot of the original Magic Find problems originated. Removing MF from all pets necessitates removing it from this source, too.
Enrichments	Removed Magic Find Enrichments.	Removing MF min-maxing also includes getting rid of MF enrichments. Players with active Magic Find enrichments would be compensated for this change.
Entropy Suppressor	"Coldfused" Reforge no longer grants Magic Find.	This reforge stone can only be used on Blaze Daggers, but gives Magic Find. What this means is that, if we didn't touch this item, after this proposed update the BiS MF weapon would be Blaze Slayer's daggers. Do we want that? Probably not.
Goblin Pet	Removed Magic Find base stat.	The Goblin Pet has a solid niche as a pet used predominately for gold collection in the Mines of Divan, which is intended, and that's fine.
Golden Dragon Pet	Removed Magic Find base stat & from "Shining Scales"	Gdrag is the most problematic source of Magic Find perhaps in the entire game, accounting for a massive amount of obtainable MF that's locked to the pet, meaning you need to petswap to it for a massive amount of activities. Removing the MF from the Gdrag is perhaps the single most foundational change that would need to occur as part of a revamp of this nature, though the pet could be compensated through buffs in other departments as it will always be a particularly expensive pet.
Grandma's Knitting Needle	Reworked.	Old: +1 5% MF at 50 Combo. New: +1 CWis at each Combo Threshold.
Grandma Wolf Pet	No longer grants Magic Find - sources replaced with more Combat Wisdom & coins.	Grandma Wolf pets will no longer grant % Magic Find for Combo, instead just granting more coins and combat wisdom. The pet was never intended to be used in the unintuitive way that it has come to be, so we're simplifying it.
Hephaestus Relic	No longer increases Magic Find.	Will still increase all other stats for the time being, but not MF. This is more of a placeholder change until we can find a meaningful rework for the item.
Jerry Candy	No longer grants Magic Find.	Though it was included in the God Pot, this effect was otherwise only granted by a Special Mayor. Removing the MF from it will reduce the FOMO for players who can't always afford to have a God Potion on (and GPot still has its own Magic Find anyway).
Legion Enchantment	Now only increases Combat Stats.	No longer increases Magic Find but increases Combat Stats more, up to +0.5% per player at V.
Lucky Clover		We have some changes in mind for this item, however, since they're related to an upcoming update, we can't spoil them just yet.
Lucky Dice	Reworked.	Instead of granting SCC/MF, now grants TC/FS along with a "Lucky Bonus" that makes you 7% more likely to get OUTSTANDING catches.
Mammoth Pet	"Tusk Luck" Reworked.	"Tusk Luck" no longer grants MF. Instead, increases Combat Stats by +0.1-10% while in the Glacite Mineshafts. This pet still isn't in a particularly great place so a larger-scale rework is likely further on down the line.
Miner's Blessing HOTM Perk	Reworked.	Old: +30 MF on Mining Islands. New: +1 drop from Crystal Nucleus. (Buff to Alloy grinding, Scatha Pets and similar drops would have rates buffed as part of this update)
Minos Relic	No longer increases Magic Find.	Will still increase all other stats for the time being, but not MF. This is more of a placeholder change until we can find a meaningful rework for the item.
Mithril Golem Pet	Reworked.	Refined Senses renamed to Ghost Buster. Has a 5% chance to drop 50-5,000 mithril powder when killing a Ghost.
Mole Pet	Reworked.	Loses base Magic Find but "Magnetic Nose" now grant +0.1-10 Magic Find on Automatons.
Slayer Energy Drink	Reworked.	Old: Adds +10 Magic Find to Critical Potions. New: Adds +5 Defense to Potions with that stat. Primarily done so that players don't have to spend time interacting with a brewing system that isn't where we want it to be on a frequent basis to achieve max MF.
Rat Pet	Replaced MF with Health Regen.	Intended as a meme pet added during Dante's reign, this one has evoked some weird lootsharing/MF min-maxing strategies that, though admittedly funny, we could probably do without.
Rift Necklace	Not Fully Decided Yet.	The Rift Necklace is directly marketed as the best necklace in the game in some in-game menus, so the question has to be asked of whether this is still true if it loses its Magic Find. Perhaps it could keep it while in The Rift, at the very least? Other ideas we have floating around are to allow this piece to become Divine and maybe buff its combat stats up a little bit - if you guys have any ideas feel free to let us know.
Sorrow Armor	Reworked.	Sorrow Armor no longer has base Magic Find, but now has a Tiered Bonus granting MF and increased damage vs Ghosts. Sorrow was the most problematic armor when it came to MF swapping due to it giving unconditional MF, so we're getting rid of that and giving it a niche on Ghosts. We hope that the set, when paired with MYTHIC Mithril Golem's "Ghost Buster" perk, will make Ghosts a more viable way of grinding Mithril Powder for stronger players.
Superior Dragon Armor	"Superior Blood" now only increases Combat Stats.	Remember when this was the BiS Mining armor for a while upon Crystal Hollows release because it increased Pristine? It would become meta again for Magic Find following this update if it wasn't once again changed - this time to only increase combat stats.

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And that's most of what we wanted to share with you today. To recap:

• We outlined the four design pillars that we believe any changes to the Magic Find system should abide by.
• We used the Backwater Bayou's rare drops to compare both the old and new Magic Find systems, showcasing that the new system is broadly more beneficial to new and old players alike.
• We provided you with an exhaustive list of every item that would still give Magic Find under the new system, as well as which items would be losing it.
  • If anything is missing from the list please respond to the thread and we'll do our best to add it.

That's about all for today. We will leave this post up for a prolonged period to gather community feedback - a Magic Find update is NOT currently in development and we will not consider working on one until we've gathered a sufficient amount of supportive community feedback. Above all else, we understand that Magic Find is a very important part of the game and will thus be as patient as necessary as we work on improving it.


FAQ:
If a question is repeatedly asked, we'll try to respond to it down here, for everyone to see.

Spoiler: Q1: Why should newer players get RNG drops as quickly as me? I've been playing for years!

A1: They still won't.

Drop rates across the game are traditionally static, meaning that the same two players killing the same mob without the context of items or progression will both have the exact same chance of dropping an item from it.

It is only when modifiers are introduced that one player becomes exponentially more likely to drop an item than another. The three most potent modifiers when it comes to drop chances are the following:

1. Magic Find
2. Looting
3. Player Efficiency

Although this proposed update seeks to address the problems posed by Magic Find and Looting, Player Efficiency will remain the broadly deterministic factor when it comes to how often you can get RNG drops.

To illustrate the above, let us assume three players, all at varying game stages, are seeking out a 0.1% drop under the current Magic Find system:

• [500] Player A has 300 Magic Find and Looting V. The actual drop rate for them is 0.7%.
• [250] Player B has 150 Magic Find and Looting IV. The actual drop rate for them is 0.4%.
• [25] Player C has 0 Magic Find and Looting IV. The actual drop rate for them is 0.16%

Immediately upon factoring in Magic Find and Looting, it becomes apparent that the three players are not on an even playing field. However, the hidden factor of Player Efficiency puts [25] Player C at an even greater disadvantage:

Let us assume that the target mob has 10,000 HP and lives in the Graveyard. While [25] Player C may be able to roll for the drop once 10 seconds after factoring in travel time, the time it takes for them to kill the mob with their gear, and similar factors, [500] Player A can likely use the AoE of, say, a Hyperion, to kill well over a dozen of that mob in the same time. [250] Player B can also likely kill a handful of them, though they may face restrictions in departments such as mana.

While the difference in efficiency varies on a case-by-case basis, it remains true that there is never a situation in which [25] Player C is favoured. In fact, it glosses over several factors that could further harm [25] Player C's rates in particular:

• Competition from players with better gear.
• Being unable to access areas where rates are better due to low skill level (e.g Can't enter Zealot Bruiser Hideout yet).
• Being unable to kill the mob because it's too strong for them.

Ultimately, while efficiency is inextricably intwined with progression and a natural part of any game, it is the compounded variance of Efficiency, Magic Find, and Looting that creates a gap between players that is simply unreasonable. The aim of this update is for these factors to be less compounded, meaning that

TL;DR: Player Efficiency means that stronger players can roll for rare drops more frequently outside of Boss content (which traditionally isn't affected by Magic Find). Even if every player had the exact same Magic Find - which they never will - the stronger players will have better rates over a prolonged period on account of their ability to roll for said drops more frequently.

Spoiler: Q2: Does the new system only make Backwater Bayou drops more common?

A2: No, the Backwater Bayou is just our "proof of concept" for how the new Magic Find system would work. We chose the Bayou because it's a newer island, and thus the drop rates were designed to be intentionally low given that maximum Magic Find was already well into the 400's by the time it released, and MF swapping would be standard on rarer SC's, such as the Titanoboa.

In actuality, the system would be expanded to the entire game, affecting drops on all islands, making them more common primarily through increasing their base drop rates.

If this proposal proves popular and the update moves to the development cycle (which we would declare on this thread rather than jump-scaring you all with an alpha post on a random Monday morning), you would see an exhaustive list of all of the drop-rate changes on the Alpha Post, containing everything from Scatha Pets to Shimmering Wool.

Spoiler: Q3: What happens to Magic Find now? Will more be added?

A3: Yes, more Magic Find will continue to be be added to the game regardless of what happens with this proposed update - but only in ways we deem healthy. As mentioned previously, this would take the form of "set and forget" items, such as Attributes, Consumables, and so on and so forth.

We feel that Attributes are a particularly healthy expression of Magic Find on account of them being able to give Magic Find on mobs of certain types, such as how the Minotaur's Mythological Fortune attribute gives Magic Find on Mythological mobs specifically.

We think this is fun and introduces a healthy element of optimization, with players being able to get more Magic Find on mobs with many types (e.g Titanoboa would theoretically benefit from three different Attributes that give MF on Animals, Aquatic, and Elusive mobs since it possesses all three types) but needing to put in the prep first by maxing the relevant attributes to then be able to reap their rewards whenever they spawn a Titanoboa without needing to break up the gameplay loop by swapping out a large portion of their gear.

Spoiler: Q4: I just bought Divine Gift / MF Enrichments - what happens now?

A4: If this update was released, you would likely be able to put weapons with Divine Gift in the /reclaim menu and retrieve the new version of the Divine Gift item. Divine Gift I would refund you 1x of the new item, Divine Gift II would refund you 2x, and Divine Gift III would refund you 4x. Alternatively, we may just slap a very high NPC sell price (similar to purchase price) on the original Divine Gift - only time will tell!

The refund process for MF enrichments is less straightforward, but rest assured knowing there would similarly be equal compensation.

Spoiler: Q5: What about Dyes?

A5: We will take a look at dyes as part of this update and, for MF-affected dyes, likely buff their drop-rates. We'll also look at any dyes that are still exceedingly rare long after the release of the Artist's Abode and buff their base rates, too.

Spoiler: Q6: What's happening with Tracking?

Q6: Tracking follows the same design philosophy we have with Magic Find - we are actively working to avoid "Tracking Swaps" as we design the stat and will similarly primarily award it through permanent/set and forget sources. Because of this approach you'll likely never see unconditional Tracking on a pet or flat Tracking on a piece of gear, f0r example, but Bobbin' Time is fine awarding tracking on sea creatures only since that's its intended design space.

Tracking is a really exciting stat - Magic Find arguably only becomes exciting when you get the drop you're after, but visibly seeing yourself finding/catching more of a rare mob every hour furthers the sense of progression, so we want to keep the stat exciting and avoid players feeling like they need to do the chore of "Tracking Swapping".

---

When I first heard of this rework I was pretty exited as a relatively new player with little mf but in this time I now have gdrag with a lucky clover (Minos Relic rng Diana will hopefully change this) and a few enrichments I picked up I feel like this change is horrible Enchrichments will always be active and I will always kill with a gdrag why remove the mf i worked for. I can see the argument for early game players but anyone who plays the game will lose from this change. This has been said 1000s of times but I might as well add my opionen as a early game player transitioning into mid game.

 

[SteelHalo3445]

When I first heard of this rework I was pretty exited as a relatively new player with little mf but in this time I now have gdrag with a lucky clover (Minos Relic rng Diana will hopefully change this) and a few enrichments I picked up I feel like this change is horrible Enchrichments will always be active and I will always kill with a gdrag why remove the mf i worked for. I can see the argument for early game players but anyone who plays the game will lose from this change. This has been said 1000s of times but I might as well add my opionen as a early game player transitioning into mid game.

I see your point but as long as people get refunded a fair amount this will help bring new players in and stop them from leaving after seeing the very low drop rates.

 

[Rezi_to_cute]

I don't think this can happen soon enough. MF is in such a weird state where for certain sections in every type of content, having an optimized MF setup is required. Scathas for mining, valuable sea creatures for fishing, all general combat content, etc. They all need a magic find setup to swap to. It breaks up progression significantly. The main items needed are highly expensive items, and many come from Diana, an event that is not always around. It breaks up the progression of any skill. Scathas are my particular pet peeve. I really want to grind for a scatha, since it's the best mining pet for most scenarios, but it feels like a huge waste to do so without an expensive pet with an expensive pet item with an expensive weapon with an absurdly expensive enchant.

I do think this is a very good and neccessary rework to have for all players. Even if all you want to do is mine, you're stuck getting a hyperspecific combat setup just to maximize the chance of getting certain things you want (of course you could just buy the item you want i.e Scatha, but that's not ideal to incentivize.) And even once you have this setup, is it really fun to have to manually swap accessories, armor, and rod swap to MF pet? I think it would make the experience better for everyone if that wasn't required.

The literal only downsides I see are the loss of value in the items. MF being essential is why Chimera is where it is in price. A lot of these items are going to need even more sigificant buffs than proposed to maintain anywhere near the level of value.

So in short, you're cooking with this one, I hope we see it implemented ASAP.

I really don’t see what point you’re trying to make with not wanting to do scathas because you don’t have a max setup. Using your same logic why do any activity unless you have the max setup? If you mine without a scatha pet divans drill and the pendant your rates will be a good bit lower than people who have those items which are very expensive. Also scathas are a terrible example to choose, you can get a very reasonable scatha mining setup for less than 200 million coins (black cat with clover, plain daed axe, and renowned sorrow armor). The next buffs you get from using the better items are very marginal and are well balanced for their price.

 

[mrkugelblitz]

revisiting this thread cause i'm bored, but also now that i've further progressed in the game, i have a few concerns..

1. addressing this point on greg:

Gdrag is the most problematic source of Magic Find perhaps in the entire game, accounting for a massive amount of obtainable MF that's locked to the pet, meaning you need to petswap to it for a massive amount of activities.
Removing the MF from the Gdrag is perhaps the single most foundational change that would need to occur as part of a revamp of this nature, though the pet could be compensated through buffs in other departments as it will always be a particularly expensive pet.

• i don't understand why greg is problematic at all. the reason why a lot of magic find is locked behind it is because its an extremely expensive pet.
• that's like complaining why the jade dragon has the most foraging fortune/sweep out of any foraging pet in the game...
• ....or complaining why the rose dragon has the most amount of overbloom/farming fortune out of any farming pet...
• these dragons are obviously going to be the strongest in their respective fields.. because they are dragons. that's their sole purpose. its BIS for a reason. people spend hundreds of millions of coins on these dragons with the expectation of receiving these buffs (such as magic find)..
• if the problem is the petswapping for some activities.. then address those activities that you need to petswap for. don't nerf gdrag because of that.
• ...but if you're going to remove magic find from greg, then you have to significantly buff it in regards to other aspects of combat. maybe a perk for less damage taken? maybe something related to regeneration? without magic find for greg, its left in a weird spot unlike the other dragons in the game, so i don't agree with this change at all.

2. addressing the point on enrichments

Removing MF min-maxing also includes getting rid of MF enrichments. Players with active Magic Find enrichments would be compensated for this change.

• i also don't understand this change. you're always going to be using magic find enrichments. they stay on ur accessories, and that's that.
• they're pretty expensive for a minor increase in magic find, sure... but people deserve to keep those buffs because they spent a lot of money on them.
• sure you can compensate them. but i still don't understand the design philosophy of this.. its not really necessary to remove.. but whatever.

3. there's also a lot of other things i can point out.

• with regards to clover helmet, since this item costs billions to get, it should still remain useful, just shouldn't give skyblock exp..
• "1) Becomes a toggleable accessory that grants +5 MF but -5% all other stats. Main issue with this is that the item would then become needed for max SBXP, which we don't want to do while it's still in Shen's."
• this idea is good, you can make it the only accessory that doesn't give sbexp.. but if thats too problematic then you can make it an equipment? or make it stay in ur inventory permanently if you want the buffs + debuffs? idk this item is pretty confusing i admit, but it shouldn't become useless.

• minos and hephaestus relic not giving magic find is crazy.. i mean the item literally becomes useless at this point.
• there has to be another way to do this update without destroying this item..

4. in regards to the design philosophy of this update:

Although this proposed update seeks to address the problems posed by Magic Find and Looting, Player Efficiency will remain the broadly deterministic factor when it comes to how often you can get RNG drops.

• i disagree. if you play for a certain amount of time, naturally you will gain an advantage over those who don't.
• i feel like the admins think that late/endgame players don't deserve more magic find than early/midgame players.. which i simply just don't agree with. a lvl 50 non shouldn't even be close to a lvl 500.. thats just common sense.
• although i think this update CAN be good... there's just a lot of problems with it.. i'm not sure if the admins have actually understood how long term players of this game feel about the game.. and i do understand that they have to balance the game around newbies.. but imo they should at least try to pretend they care about us lol

 

[DeadClown]

как скажите...

 

[BudBud3280]

This is why they added Overbloom.