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Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 September 19

< Wikipedia:Templates for discussion | Log

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tothwolf (talk | contribs) at 23:29, 21 September 2016 (→Template:External link: Reply to Andy Mabbett). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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September 19

Template:Editnotices/Page/Template:ArbComBlock

Since BASC no longer exists and arbcom-appeals-en no longer in use, this edit notice can probably be deleted as obsolete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 20:08, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:13, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Created in 2009 and still labelled "currently for experimental/testing purposes only." Has 1,898 transclusions (a tiny, tiny proportion of our external links), mainly through its use in templates.

In {{Bugatti}}, for instance it uses {{external link|http://www.bugatti.com/|Bugatti Automobiles official website}} where [http://www.bugatti.com/ Bugatti Automobiles official website], which has 16 fewer characters, would suffice. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:47, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete For bots that work on external links (there are many) it would require special handling to parse the template and write it out. My guess is most bots don't know this template exists and the links are passed by unprocessed (such as dead link and archive checkers). The template has no option for |archiveurl= for example if a link is dead. If an external link template is used, preferably it would be {{cite web}} which is better supported by the CS1 standard (including by third party tools). In fact, recommend making the conversion for the 1898 instances with a bot, in {{Bugatti}} to see how they compare:
  • {{external link|http://www.bugatti.com/|Bugatti Automobiles official website}}
Template:External link
  • {{cite web |url=http://www.bugatti.com |title=Bugatti Automobiles official website}}
"Bugatti Automobiles official website".
Almost exactly the same (the later has "quotes" around the title). This template has some options cite web doesn't but that could be worked out with a bot that does conversions to plain text. BTW I'm having trouble finding where the template is used due to transclusions 'What Links Here' doesn't work. -- GreenC 12:38, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment from template creator. This template came about after discussions such as this, this, and others.
    I marked this template as experimental when I wrote it in 2009. No one has apparently ever felt the need to edit its documentation to remove the notice. If the notice bothers you, please feel free to edit the documentation subpage and remove it.
    The template was never intended to be used in place of simple links that could be produced using brackets. I suggest reading the template's code and documentation. If this template is being used in certain cases where brackets would be more appropriate, then it should be replaced in those cases with simple brackets.
    It's also quite possible this template should be renamed. It has uses, but with its current name, it might be prone to overuse. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:25, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • For example it duplicates {{official}} (158660 count) and most of its features are found in {{web cite}} such as |language=, |subscription=, |registration=, |type= and |format=. It does have a feature |template= which is useful though not sure how widely used and not critical. -- GreenC 15:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm sorry, but your arguments are fundamentally flawed. {{official}} does not duplicate the functionality of this template, hence the prior discussions regarding a meta template to handle special case external links.
        {{cite web}} also does not duplicate its functionality and should never be nor was it ever intended to be used for general purpose use for external links. Citation templates have a massive amount of overhead compared to much smaller single/special purpose templates which is why we have both. I'm speaking as someone who is intimately familiar with the internal working of the citation templates. [1] [2] --Tothwolf (talk) 20:03, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • Fair enough re: cite web. Learn something new every day. I've redacted the suggestion. It seems like a fork of {{official}} that I don't understand even after reading the discussion. If you need more than official provides than use a plain text entry (no template). Or work to integrate features into the official template. Question: you mentioned the documentation contains information of how the template is meant to be used but I don't see it (other than syntax). Is it mostly meant to be used from within other templates (which seems to be the cases)? Thanks. -- GreenC 21:11, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
          • At the time this template was written, {{official}} was a very very simple link wrapper template [3] with a total of 107 bytes: [{{{1|{{{URL|}}} }}} {{{name|Official website}}}] I'm not really sure {{official}} should have ever been expanded to the point it is now, because it has a very high number of transclusions which will never make use of all the additional functionality and associated overhead. The fact that it was converted from a very simple link wrapper into a complex Lua module itself is somewhat troubling. I'm not necessarily opposed to merging some of the functionality of {{external link}} into {{official}}, its just that I'm not sure this is the best way to go. We had a lot of discussions about this stuff in 2009 spread out over a lot of talk pages. It could be that we should really be looking at going the other way, and simplify {{official}} and have a different Lua-enabled link wrapper template along the lines of {{external link}} (possibly under a different name to avoid overuse) to be used only for the more complex use cases. --Tothwolf (talk) 16:14, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • In the former discussion, User:Thumperward told you if the current wording is "never ideal" then it should be changed, not worked around with new flags or template forks or whatever. There is nothing there that justifies the existence of this template. Even so, there is still the issue that a mere 1,898 transclusions in seven years shows that the community has "voted with its feet" on the use of this template. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:24, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment, somewhat indifferent to the deletion of this template in the cases that it uses all three input parameters (url, link label, and "at"). when it uses only two input parameters (url and link label), it seems somewhat pointless. I fixed two templates which were using this instead of {{citation}} or with only two input parameters (clearly overkill). so, as a result, the transclusion count has dropped to around 300-350 250-275. Frietjes (talk) 15:23, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I really thought the template's documentation was self explanatory. Here are some examples:

{{External link|url=http://www.example.com/|name=Example|language=eo}}
‹See Tfd›Example (in Esperanto)

{{External link|url=http://www.example.com/|name=Example|subscription=y}}
‹See Tfd›Example (requires subscription)

{{External link|url=http://www.example.com/|name=Example|flash=y}}
‹See Tfd›Example (requires Adobe Flash)

{{External link|url=http://www.example.com/|name=Example|requires=special plugin}}
‹See Tfd›Example (requires a special plugin)
This template was never intended to be used as a general purpose link wrapper. It was intended to be used for these type of special cases. --Tothwolf (talk) 23:28, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Piperazines

I propose that this template, which seems to be listing ALL drugs of a certain chemical class, be deleted. It

  • Is not navigationally useful
  • Is extremely large
  • Acts as a list
  • Can be easily duplicated (and probably is) using categories
  • Contributes to pointless navbox sprawl

I propose that this template is deleted and instead we use categories and subcategories to represent this content. I propose this move speculatively and look forward to hearing the opinions of other users Tom (LT) (talk) 09:29, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as a pharmaceutical chemist not involved in the creation, I find it very useful. If you don't like it, you can always hold an RFC to have it collapsed by default. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 20:49, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure the template is all that useful. Even though it is large, it only includes a small fraction of the >300 Wikipedia articles about piperazines. I don't know why some are included and most are not. To be useful, I think it would need to be focused in some way. -- Ed (Edgar181) 18:58, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The template isn't divided by relevant topics. I agree, it acts like a list. It looks like just an arbitrary proper subset of piperazines. For mentioning all pages we have on piperazines, a list or a category are better. Mario Castelán Castro (talk) 14:16, 1 September 2016 (UTC).[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Frietjes (talk) 13:42, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - it's a useful template, even if it isn't all-inclusive (nothing ever is anyways). I don't see the point to deleting it - just make sure it's collapsed by default. Garzfoth (talk) 14:29, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Iranian university ranking

Redundant, no transclusions. Aloneinthewild (talk) 21:48, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Created 2011, but only two transclusions. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:40, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Lean toward keep: We're very tolerant of low-use templates intended for user and project space. The site being used to provide the data is free and not covered with ads (I just checked with my ad-blocker turned off), so it's not spammy, just a utility. This would be useful for coordinating things like a local wiki-meetup or cutoff time for processes like RfA. This template can be used as a meta-template, and the underlying site (aside from this template in particular) could be used more broadly, though we'd need another tool (see below) to get at specific hour and minute values to feed into it. At bare minimum this should at least be userspaced to the author, not just deleted.
    Could be replaceable with a Lua module that munged {{CURRENTTIMESTAMP}} and {{LOCALTIMESTAMP}} to get at specific values in them. If we had that (do we not already?), and it were done flexibly, it could be used for an array of template situations, e.g. even to convert one local time silently to UTC then back out again as a different local time, or whatever. The hitch is that WP:MAGICWORDS only gives us {{CURRENTHOUR}} not minute, so doing it without Lua wouldn't be able to account for fractional-hour time zones.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  03:59, 28 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:00, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:47, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:PII

Single use Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:19, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The purpose of this template is to frame Publisher Item Identifier (PII) codes in citation id= parameters (at least for as long as we don't have a dedicated pii= parameter, as exists in some other WPs). It can also be used in flow text.
The idea is to provide a convenient and consistent (and searchable) output format for all such ids, and to later have some means to adjust this format centrally for all PIIs (and other ids) would this become necessary in the future for technical or cosmetical reasons. It should be added to many other citations rather than be deleted (the template is just a couple of months old, that's why it isn't used in more citations already).
While the template is - at present - only a simple wrapper without much "functionality", in the long run, I see this being converted to use the more generic {{Catalog lookup link}} template internally, and have meta data output and error checking added.
I don't see any of our deletion criteria for templates applying and also I can't identify any other plausible reason why we should delete this.
--Matthiaspaul (talk) 14:00, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:09, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:46, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Phillips Haymakers football navbox

Navbox with just one link. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 20:33, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Spring Hill Badgers football navbox

Navbox with just two links. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 20:31, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment A third if we count the link to Spring Hill Badgers football. I created both the Spring Hill and Phillips navboxes, so I'm addressing both with this post. They are both historically significant football programs of yesteryear. Spring Hill can be a bit confusing for notability as I believe it was a prep school, but then the same might be said of Carlisle. They are far from the only programs with red links. Still, I tried to at least add one more season for each. Cake (talk) 22:40, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:2002 Gujarat Violence

Trivia, BLP violation, people section is entirely objectionable. Do we have any such other navbox? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 16:46, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hardly trivia. All the entries are notable and have their own wikipedia page. Anyone wanting to know more about the 2002 Gujarat riots through wikipedia pages can do so with the help of this template. The 2002 Gujarat Riots was a significant event in modern Indian history. So Keep. Soham321 (talk) 16:51, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also, i am unable to understand how there is any possible BLP violation through the usage of this template. Soham321 (talk) 16:53, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Please sign

Redundant, non-standard user talk-page message template. Only twelve (12) transclusions, after ten years, despite being marked "This template should not be substituted". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:05, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Kana Museve Wode Nyama

I don't really think what this template was used for. It looks like an article instead of template. NgYShung huh? 11:06, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Evansville-stub

Seems to have been created out of process without a matching category and is currently not being used. With a population of 120k it's fairly marginal for having its own stub type. Le Deluge (talk) 11:02, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Clash of the Choirs

No cast and crew in navboxes per WP:PERFNAV. What's left isn't worthy of navbox inclusion either. Rob Sinden (talk) 09:29, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:NBC News personalities

No cast and crew in navbox per WP:PERFNAV. Rob Sinden (talk) 09:21, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:The Voice (India)

No cast and crew per WP:PERFNAV. Once these are removed there is no useful navigation function performed by the navbox. Rob Sinden (talk) 08:21, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Citeplaton

Propose merging Template:Citeplaton with Template:Citeplato.

Minor formatting difference only. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:29, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Rob13Talk 07:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Samford Bulldogs quarterback navbox

Not enough links for this navbox. Once enough blue notable links are added I would support recreation. UCO2009bluejay (talk) 00:25, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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