User talk:Toohool

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The file is bigger than 2.41Mb advertised. This is the case for all media published — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 105.112.208.41 (talk) 19:42, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

File:UNESCO headquarters from the Eiffel Tower.jpg

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Elisfkc (talk) 20:27, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

File:Ruby_shoots_Oswald.jpg

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Sorry, but where do you get that this is PD? EEng (talk) 04:43, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@EEng: The reason is there in the licensing section: copyright was not renewed. Toohool (talk) 05:29, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And how do you know that? EEng (talk) 15:56, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@EEng: By searching the copyright database. There is a very handy step-by-step guide here for clearing copyright of works from periodicals, including images, if you're interested. Toohool (talk) 17:16, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
OK, so what exactly did you search? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I have some recollection that we've been through this before with this particular image, and the reason it wasn't in the article already is precisely because it's still under copyright. EEng (talk) 17:37, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@EEng: The photographer's name, the newspaper's name, the subjects' names, and variations on them. I also searched for previous deletion discussions on Commons about this photo and didn't find any. Toohool (talk) 17:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll repeat that I'm not trying to be difficult but, among other issues, the search page says front and center that "Works registered prior to 1978 may be found only in the Copyright Public Records Reading Room". I'm not sure a negative result on your personal searches is enough. Can you point me somewhere supporting this? EEng (talk) 17:59, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@EEng: A work published in 1963 would have to have been renewed in 1990 or 1991, so the renewal would be in the database. I would refer you to the step-by-step guide I linked above. Toohool (talk) 18:04, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I should have been clearer: what I was asking for is a project guideline or policy making a negative result on unspecified database queries sufficient support for a PD determination. Here's the problem: The article you linked from the file description page [1] recites that as of 2002:

[Jackson] estimates having made "tens of thousands of dollars" off the reprint rights, which the Times Herald gave him almost immediately. He charges publications anywhere from $250 to $2,500 to print the picture, processed from the original negative. ... There's even a doctored Internet version, which shows Ruby playing an electric guitar, Oswald holding a microphone and the police detective cuffed to his wrist playing a keyboard. Mr. Jackson and the graphic artist who designed it "share the profits, and that's been going on four to five years," says Mr. Jackson, $3,000 richer from that version.

This is inconsistent with the idea that the copyright wasn't renewed. EEng (talk) 06:11, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@EEng: I'm not sure there are any policies about what is or isn't sufficient support for any PD determination. Practically speaking, if an editor has doubts about a file, the burden is on them to open a deletion request and make an argument that rebuts the stated justification on the file, or at least raises enough doubt for the precautionary principle to prevail.
The fact that some people pay for a license for the image is not at all inconsistent with the idea that it is public domain. Most people simply don't have the knowledge or the time to research copyright renewals, and it's easier and safer just to pay. Toohool (talk) 06:30, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ask again: what, exactly, were the searches you did? A name search for Jackson Robert at https://cocatalog.loc.gov/ returns 851 results; I don't see how you could have reviewed all of those. This is one of the most famous photos in history and if it's actually in PD one would expect that to be a well-established fact easily found. EEng (talk) 14:45, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@EEng: I'm happy to explain things, but could you dial back the confrontational tone? 851 results is not that many to deal with. You can sort the list by date and see that there are only a handful of works from around 1963. You can also sort by name and skip any Robert Jackson's with a middle initial other than "H", which only leaves about 150. It's also faster to work through the results if you increase it to 100 rows per page.
If you find it hard to believe that this photo is PD, then you wildly overestimate how big a thing copyright was in the newspaper industry back then. Only a handful of newspapers ever renewed copyrights, and virtually no newspaper photographs were ever renewed. Most newspapers were in the public domain from the day of publication because they didn't even bother to include a copyright notice. It would be much more suprising if this photo *were* under copyright. Toohool (talk) 17:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry if you feel confronted, but I've been asking straightforward questions in the hopes of getting clear evidence of PD, and in return getting piecemeal answers. Your talk of original newspaper copyright is irrelevant, because (as seen in the article from which you took the crop) a copyright notice was indeed present at original publication; and your talk of newspaper renewal practices is also irrelevant, because (as seen in the same article) rights to the photo were apparently transferred by the newspaper to Jackson personally -- and one can certainly imagine that the owner of a Pulitzer-winning photo might take the trouble to renew its copyright, particularly since it had already been providing a stream of income.
At Help:Public_domain#endnote_renewal we're told that The United States Copyright renewal records search engine is a useful tool for determining renewal status but "useful for determining" isn't much of a guide to what exactly you're supposed to do with it. I can't tell exactly what that database is supposed to cover, or what a negative result represents -- do you, definitively? Based on what? What defines all the various names and titles you need to search in any given case? In this case, specifically?
LC holds a copy of this image which it tags "Publication may be restricted" [2]; again, this being one of the most famous photos in history, one would expect that if it's actually PD then LC would go to the trouble of identifying it as such. Just sayin'. EEng (talk) 19:35, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@EEng: Right, not confrontational at all. :eyeroll: If we're talking about what's irrelevant, your ability to imagine the copyright being renewed, and whether the Library of Congress knows whether the photo is copyrighted is not relevant either. They have millions of works on their site, they can't do freelance clearance work for everyone. Whether there was a copyright notice at the time of publication is irrelevant. All that's relevant is whether it was renewed. There's either a renewal in the database or there isn't. I've already told you what I looked for in the database. If you think it's in there somewhere, feel free to search yourself. Toohool (talk) 19:51, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Look, you're the one who made assertions about newspaper copyright practices; I simply pointed out that other narratives are more than plausible in this exceptional case. And yeah, the LC's apparent position on one of the most famous photos in history (though, admittedly, this particular entry may be a database default) is certainly relevant. It's not my job to find a renewal; it was your job to demonstrate the lack of one. You leave me no choice but to nominate for deletion. EEng (talk) 12:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

File:Ruby shoots Oswald.jpg

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EEng (talk) 12:38, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

File tagging File:Campus Guns.jpg

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Patrick Rogel (talk) 08:06, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

File:Campus Guns.jpg

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Patrick Rogel (talk) 16:57, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

File:Aid from the Padre.jpg was recently deleted

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File:Dreams of Better Times (Toshio Sakai).jpg was recently deleted

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File:Flee to Safety.jpg was recently deleted

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MOTD Notification

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⭐ A file you uploaded is on the main page! ⭐

File:The Freshman.webm, that you uploaded, is on the main page today. Thank you for your contributions to this project.

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File:Dreams of Better Times (Toshio Sakai).jpg

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Wikiacc (talk) 02:46, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notification about possible deletion

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Affected:

And also:

Yours sincerely, — Racconish 💬 15:04, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

LATimes UCLA

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Hey, do you want to make a similar template for the LA Daily News? I uploaded a whole bunch of photos from that collection as well. Thanks. —howcheng {chat} 20:35, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Howcheng: Sure, good idea, I created {{Daily News UCLA}}. Toohool (talk) 01:38, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

FP Promotion

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★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★

The image File:Pepper No. 30.jpg, that you uploaded is now assessed as one of the finest pictures on Wikimedia Commons, the nomination is available at Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Pepper No. 30.jpg. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate, please do so at this nomination page.

/FPCBot (talk) 13:00, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

File:Jross baughman rhodesia pulitzer02.jpg

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2A02:C7C:5303:2500:AC42:F940:FA60:5519 21:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

File:Tokyo Stabbing.jpg

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Taivo (talk) 10:24, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FP Promotion

[edit]
★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★

The image File:Nautilus by Edward Weston.jpg, that you uploaded is now assessed as one of the finest pictures on Wikimedia Commons, the nomination is available at Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Nautilus by Edward Weston.jpg. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate, please do so at this nomination page.

/FPCBot (talk) 21:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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