If for some reason you have 44:17 of your life you'll never need back, or you're stuck in an elevator somewhere, there's some patented NicholsonBabble (TM) at the Adventures in Sci Fi Publishing podcast.
http://www.adventuresinscifipublishing.com/2014/06/aisfp-podcast-264-scott-nicholson-red-church/
